AVC: In Stop Loss, there's a sense of a real emotional connection to the military. Was it important to you that your protagonist would be predisposed to think well of the government and the military?
KP: Absolutely. If you had someone who didn't love the military, and wasn't a true patriot, you didn't have much of an arc. So we have a guy who… He doesn't really turn against the government, but he speaks out against this thing. That wasn't going to be dramatic, but when you have these kids who love the military, this is how they're brought up. They know they're supposed to fight for their country, and they go in for all the right reasons. And they've finished their tours of duty, and they've done everything right, and they you do this to them… They feel betrayed. They feel like, "Wait a second, this is not what I was taught. This is not where I was supposed to end up if I do everything right." Which is profoundly more dramatic, and true to the situation. Because it's in a volunteer army. Who's volunteering? People who are believers.
AVC: And there's a sense, too, that you sign up for it for the war, but not infinitely. Not in an open-ended way.
KP: Well, the soldiers say, "I signed up for 9/11." A lot of soldiers didn't know that [the Iraq War] was connected to that. Also, they signed up for a certain term, and then in their eyes, the president said that the war was over. And stop-loss is supposed to be used during a time of war. Again, they feel that the government isn't following the contract. Also, they're concerned that it's something that's deeply embedded in the fine print of their contracts, so they're feeling like, "Look, I signed up at 18. I love my country. Do you think the contract should have this in the fine print? Is that really a way that the military should be treating its own soldiers? Why not make everything out in the open?"
AVC: Do you think of Ryan Phillippe's character as going AWOL?
KP: He doesn't think so. He really doesn't. He even says, "We're not like these guys." That's a moment of shock to him. This is something we really worked hard on. There were times when he met other AWOL guys in the script, and we wondered if he should bond with these guys and say, "Great, I'm gonna be AWOL too." But we decided he'd meet them and say, "I'm not like these guys. I'm trying to solve my problem." He sees himself as a sergeant who did his time in battle. There were times that he saw things were unfair and stuck through it, and now he wants to put it behind him. He's not trying to be a deserter. It's not even in his consciousness. He's just like, "I'm gonna go solve my problem quickly, so it's no longer a problem." He says he's going to talk to the senator to get this cleared up.
AVC: It seems like this film is about somebody developing their own value system.
KP: Absolutely. But also, he already thinks he has a value system, but doesn't think it's being carried out. But you're right. He's developing a value system, particularly around the issues of leadership, and the camaraderie and the connection to the men. I think of it as a story of a guy who learns how to become a great leader. He's a good leader, and he's done his job, kind of like the gunslinger, and he's gonna hang up his gun and be done.
AVC: A lot of filmmakers are skeptical of the test-screening process, but it seems like you welcome it. What's the upside?
KP: The upside is that I love screening the movie. I think you make a movie by screening it. Frank Capra did it. One of the best books ever written, if you want to have a good read [is his autobiography, The Name Above The Title.] He would do these screenings and he would put a tape recorder on, and he'd go back to his editing room, and he knew when they coughed, and when they lost interest. Anytime I sit through a screening of the movie, it doesn't matter how far I've gotten through the editing process. You push and push to make it as clear as you can, but when you throw it up in front of an audience, you always see it with new eyes. You're like, "That is boring as hell!" Or, "Oh my God, that's working! We can do a little more of that."
I think that's how you make movies. In that way, I like screening. I screen constantly. The only thing that's really hard about the screening process… The Neilsen NRG isn't really the problem, because they're just a group of people who actually set up the screenings for you, get the demographic you want, and question the audience. You sit right behind the audience and watch them say whatever the hell they want about your movie, and it's enlightening. I think the problem lies in the commercialization of the film before it's reached its end result. That is what I would want control over. As the movie is trying to find itself, as it does in the editing room, you're bringing an audience in, and you're asking them to be filmmakers. As read by a filmmaker, I think test screenings are incredibly helpful. As read by the studio, I'm not always sure they're the healthiest thing, because the studios say, "Wow, if you cut out this scene, you'll have a wider base." And that may not be the best thing for this movie.
AVC: It seems like if you have a certain set of goals, it can be empowering in the sense that you're test screening so you can make the strongest film.
KP: If it's a director-run test-screening, it's only ever been helpful. And [Boys Don't Cry producer] Christine Vachon—I've really got to give her kudos, she told me to screen often. She forced me to screen, and no matter what, whether they liked it or didn't like it, it was always enlightening. I would encourage all young filmmakers to do it.
AVC: What did you learn about Stop Loss and Boys Don't Cry through test-screening?
KP: With Boys, we had a whole section where we showed you Brandon as a girl. The first 10 minutes as a girl in a trailer park. The problem is, people wanted more Brandon as a girl, or they didn't want any Brandon as a girl. So we ended up cutting it and starting it late, without the first 10 minutes, as a test screening. In Stop Loss, we realized with the opening, based on the soldier's video that I loved, we opened the movie with a very rock 'n' roll, hardcore, in-your-face opening that I loved. But it did provoke questions. So we ended up taking it out, and starting on a patriotic song. But really, we were starting with the guys being bonded with each other, so we got right into the story. That was a lesson for me, taking it out. Yes there was a part of it that I always missed. You always end up starting later than you thought, and you learn that through screening. Audiences want to start a film as late in the story as possible, and they want to start in the moment where the character is being most the character. That's always a lesson. And with pacing issues—you have to do pacing issues with an audience. You ask "Where is it boring, where does it drag?"
AVC: You have to be ruthless in your editing.
KP: It's painful. But can I credit my editor, Claire Simpson, who did Wall Street, and Platoon, and Constant Gardener. She's brilliant. [Stop Loss cinematographer] Chris Menges is brilliant. He did Killing Fields, he did Dirty Pretty Things.
AVC: Boys Don't Cry and Stop Loss are both very heavy, emotionally wrenching films. Can you see yourself writing lighter, more escapist work? Or is this just your aesthetic?
KP: I think it is my aesthetic, because it is what moves me, but at the same time, I'm writing a romantic comedy, which was inspired by a true story—my first and only blind date. And it is hilarious. Friends have been pushing me to write it, because I tell them the stories and they're like, "That is out-of-control funny!" I have a very funny side, but I get caught up in these serious things. You see a little bit of the humor in the way the guys open the wedding presents [in Stop Loss], but I always think my movies are incredibly funny.
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