Ever since his days on MTV's sketch show The State, Michael Showalter has practically defined "cult appeal" with projects like the summer-camp movie spoof Wet Hot American Summer, the anti-romantic comedy The Baxter, the deliberately awkward online chatfest The Michael Showalter Showalter, and—with frequent collaborators Michael Ian Black and David Wain—the anarchic, Marx brothers-esque troupe Stella. With the recent release of his CD Sandwiches & Cats, Showalter has added stand-up to his résumé, combining improvisational riffs with uncomfortable confessional humor in a signature stupid-smart way that should be catnip to his fervent fan base. During a break from a co-headlining tour with Black, The A.V. Club caught up with Showalter to talk about his myriad projects (including that buzzed-about State reunion), the reason he doesn't like performing in comedy "stores," his indie-rock credibility, and why Dane Cook makes him laugh.
The A.V. Club: Let's just get this out of the way: When will DVDs of The State come out?
Michael Showalter: I don't know, actually. Don't have an answer for you. They have it. We've made the DVD, and it exists. It's out of our hands, and I know who has it, but I don't know why they're waiting. I only know that they are waiting. The whole DVD issue is something that I don't really think about, because it's so not in our control. I know people are eager to get it and everything, and we've done the commentary and the deleted material and all that stuff, but I just don't know when it's coming out.
AVC: You caused quite a stir recently by announcing that The State was reuniting for a movie about American history. What can you tell us about that?
MS: Well, that's pretty much it. You just said it. We're doing a movie, but because of the writers' strike, there's not much we can do at the moment. But we're definitely reuniting.
AVC: What stage is it in?
MS: We're just exchanging ideas right now.
AVC: So we can expect a full reunion?
MS: I think so, yeah.
AVC: When The State ended, it seemed like there were two camps that broke away: Stella and Reno 911! Is that indicative of two smaller group dynamics within The State?
MS: Probably. I think it also has as much to do with us choosing to stay on the East Coast versus the West Coast. Some of us just chose to stay in New York vs. L.A. But no, when we were on The State, everybody worked with different people. It just sort of happened that way. Ben [Garant] and Tom [Lennon] are definitely writing partners, and that explains that. Mike, David [Wain], and I were all on the East Coast doing Stella. Right now, Ken Marino and David are working together a lot, and Michael Black and I are working together a lot. I think that perceived division has as much to do with geography as anything.
AVC: Were you ever asked about being involved with Reno 911! prior to your appearance in the movie?
MS: No.
AVC: Has your relationship with anyone in The State changed since the split?
MS: Only in the way that things change as a result of time-passage. We don't see each other as much as we used to. We used to be together 24/7 for quite a while, and now half the group lives in L.A., so I don't see them. But other than that, no.
AVC: What's happening with The Michael Showalter Showalter?
MS: I just did four new segments for that. Jack McBrayer from 30 Rock, a comedian named Mike Biribiglia, Michael Cera, and the cast of Human Giant. Those are rolling out over the next few months.
AVC: Because of the strike, networks have been turning to online content to fill their schedules. Would you be open to developing TMSS as a TV show?
MS: Definitely. The project that I'm doing with Michael Black has a lot of similarities to that.
AVC: You've also hinted that there's more to come from Stella. Anything you can elaborate on?
MS: I said that? Well, I think we're hosting a Barack Obama benefit in New York, but other than that, not really.
AVC: Is Barack Obama a Stella fan?
MS: I doubt it. I doubt he's ever even heard of us.
AVC: Considering you and Michael Ian Black tour together so frequently, what's stopping you from doing another Stella tour?
MS: I think Mike and I both just want to do stand-up right now.
AVC: You didn't start out doing stand-up until a couple of years ago. Have you had to work at it to find your rhythm?
MS: Yeah, and I still consider myself very much a neophyte. I also don't really think of myself as being a traditional stand-up. But yeah, it's kind of an ongoing thing.
AVC: Did you study anyone in particular in developing your act?
MS: No one in particular. There are comedians that I like. I think a lot of it, you just figure out on your own. It's definitely one of those things that you get good at by doing it a lot. But I like Jim Gaffigan. Patton Oswalt. Janeane Garofalo. I like the comedians that go into detail and tell longer stories.
AVC: What made you want to jump to stand-up after doing sketch for so long?
MS: It was just another medium of comedy that I wanted to try. I like doing all different types of comedy—stand-up, sketch, movies, TV. I like to try everything.
AVC: Is being alone on stage harder than working in a group?
MS: Actually, I like it. It's free-er. I tend to a lot of improvisational ranting, and that's fun. For me, stand-up has been, performance-wise, a really good outlet. Making Stella was difficult, because it's very complicated—a lot of choreography and camera work. Which is why The Michael Showalter Showalter was specifically designed to be easy to shoot.
AVC: You're part of a new breed of comedians who prefer performing in music clubs to traditional comedy clubs. What is it about the "two-drink minimum"-type places that you find unappealing?
MS: I wouldn't say I find it "unappealing," but I guess I don't personally feel comfortable performing in a comedy club, mainly because as an audience member, I've never enjoyed that experience. It feels a little bit theme-park-ish to me, in that it's a club whose product is comedy. I find that weird. It's like those specialty chocolate stores, where everything is chocolate. It's too specific. I like going somewhere that specializes in variety.
AVC: Your press kit calls you the "Billy Joel of comedy." What does that mean?
MS: It means nothing. I did that promotional poster, which is a take-off of 52nd Street, and it just seemed like the appropriate line to put on there. In some weird way, I think maybe I am the Billy Joel of comedy, although I have no idea what that means.
AVC: So maybe in 10 years, you'll only be doing "classical" comedy?
MS: I guess so. Or crashing my car into trees.
AVC: Does that make Michael Ian Black the Elton John of comedy?
MS: You'd have to ask him, but probably yeah. Or maybe the Todd Rundgren of comedy. If you're gonna print something, I'd prefer Todd Rundgren, so people will have to Google "Todd Rundgren."
AVC: What are the advantages of touring as a package with Michael?
MS: He and I get along very well, and we're working on other projects while we're on tour. I think it also creates a better bill. And we help each other a lot with our material, giving each other feedback, or playing around together onstage. Keeping it moving.
AVC: Do you guys ever get sick of each other?
MS: No. We've known each other now for 20 years, so part of the reason we do it is we don't get sick of each other. I'm sure there are things about me that annoy him. I'm chronically late and always losing things. I smoke cigarettes, and I know that bothers him.
AVC: Can you ever see yourself heading out solo?
MS: I'd like to, eventually. But right now, this is working out.
AVC: Patton Oswalt and David Cross recently had an online debate about Cross' appearance in Alvin And The Chipmunks. You've so far managed to avoid cashing easy paychecks in crappy movies. Is that a conscious decision?
MS: Not at all. If I could have done a role in Alvin And The Chipmunks, I would have, 100 percent.
AVC: Do you often go on auditions?
MS: I have the opportunity to audition for some of these things, but I tend not to. Not for artistic reasons, but because I know I won't get the part. It just feels like a waste of time.
AVC: It's more a matter of low self-esteem than integrity?
MS: Not low self-esteem, but reality. I've just auditioned enough times to know that I won't get the part.
AVC: Is there anything you didn't get that you're upset about?
MS: I really wanted to play Will Arnett's role in The Brothers Solomon. I'm not saying that I was close at all, but I put a lot of effort into auditioning for that movie. I thought it was an absolutely hilarious screenplay, and I would have loved to have been in that.
AVC: Many of your State alums—including Michael Ian Black—regularly appear in commercials. Is that something you would do?
MS: I did a few commercials many years back. It would really depend. I'm not very big on appearing in commercials, so in general, I don't audition for "on-air" commercials—the ones where your face can be seen. I've auditioned for voiceover campaigns that I haven't gotten, but I don't really want to be seen in a commercial unless it's a product that I really love. Like, if Adidas asked me, I would do it in a heartbeat. But many years ago, I did a Reebok commercial, one for Pep Boys, one for Dunkin' Donuts. During some of my leaner years, I auditioned for commercials, but I really couldn't stomach it. It just didn't feel right. But that's not a judgment. I don't want to disparage my colleagues who do that. It's a totally personal thing.
AVC: For the comedy blog The Apiary, you wrote about how comedians actually love heckling, because it gives you an opportunity to "uncork your anger" and get laughs. Do you worry that by going on record as the "guy who loves hecklers," you're asking for trouble?
MS: I hope not, and it wasn't a coincidence that I put that on The Apiary, and not Pitchfork or something. I didn't feel like billions of people would be reading The Apiary. And I think I specified that there are two kinds of heckling: There's "you suck, I don't like you, you're not funny" heckling. That's not good heckling. That kind of heckling, no one really likes. There's a way to work with that, but on the whole, if I get a lot of "you suck," I will most likely shut down. The other kind is, "Look at me! Even though I'm not performing, I want attention!" That's good heckling, because that person is a very easy target, and you can go 10 minutes on humiliating that guy. But you have to walk a line, being extremely, unrelentingly mean to him and keeping it where you aren't actually hurting his feelings, or making it so the audience feels like it's gotten uncomfortable—which is a fun line to walk. You're uncorking anger, but not so much that the audience is like, "Wow, he's really upset." The "Cats" segment on my record is a good example of that.
AVC: Speaking of that, had that woman not turned up with those cats, what would have filled those minutes on your album?
MS: Shitty, way less interesting stand-up. There's at least half an hour's worth of material that I didn't put on that record that would have been fine, but I was very happy to have something like that on there. That was kind of my concept going in, to have a comedy record that was different. I was thrilled.
AVC: Did that woman get thanked on the album?
MS: Well, we named the album after her. Isn't that enough? What do you want me to do, go track her down and send residuals? Who are you, anyway? It's not enough that we name the record after her? What are you, her friend?
AVC: I don't think so. Probably not.
MS: Are there any other ideas you have as to how I should do things that you'd like to tell me? Any other suggestions? We're MySpace friends, so just feel free to send them along, okay?
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