When Wilco's second album, Being There, was released in 1996, bandleader Jeff Tweedy quickly became one of modern rock's most beloved figures, praised for his rootsy, classically constructed songs and easygoing melodicism. But Tweedy has spent much of the last decade alienating old fans while winning new ones, by following an elusive muse that's had him exploring elaborate pop production on Summerteeth, avant-garde deconstruction on Yankee Hotel Foxtrot (the process of which was detailed in the documentary I Am Trying To Break Your Heart) and fractured mood pieces on A Ghost Is Born. Between Wilco projects, Tweedy has collaborated with friends on albums by Golden Smog, The Minus 5, and Loose Fur, the latter of which let Tweedy explore the kind of long-form jamming that early Wilco largely eschewed. Some of that sensibility has spilled over into the last few Wilco albums, and even the band's latest, Sky Blue Sky, adds extended instrumental passages to a set of songs as bright and likeable as any since Being There. Tweedy recently spoke with The A.V. Club about Sky Blue Sky, improvisation, his musical education, and why he can't let himself fret over what other people think Wilco should be.
The A.V. Club: The first song on Sky Blue Sky, "Either Way," almost seems like it should be the last song. It has sort of a soft, summing-up feel. Why did you start the album that way?
Jeff Tweedy: I don't know, we all just felt like it sounded like a nice way to ease into the record. Lyrically, maybe it's a bit of a mission statement. In general, most of these songs are dealing with some idea of acceptance, and trying to relate to the world. Relating to reality in a way that comprehends that it's never exactly what you want it to be.
AVC: Do you think much about album sequencing?
JT: Absolutely. A lot of time gets spent on that with every record. I don't really feel like you're making a record unless you pay attention to it. Even though probably only a few people listen to albums start to finish these days, I still like the idea of starting in one place and ending up in another. Like a movie. Linear and cinematic.
AVC: Do you still consume music that way? Are you still an album guy, or do you put your iPod on "shuffle" like everybody else?
JT: I do both. I still enjoy the type of listening I did growing up, which is the really intense kind of sitting and doing nothing else, listening through a record. But like everybody, I also find it nice to have a lot of songs at my fingertips. I don't like walking around with an iPod, though. I don't like being in public with headphones on. I don't know how people can do it. It seems like you're so cut off from your environment. I feel like I'd get hit by a car.
AVC: You've been very open about sharing Wilco's music on the Internet. Do you think the music industry is going to have to go more in that direction, treating the Web like radio? Or do you think labels are going to clamp down even harder in the future?
JT: I don't think it really matters whether they clamp down harder or not, because that's the way everything's going. Unless we see serious changes in what the Internet is, it's going to be that way. Internet is radio for a lot of people. It's a place to get music and hear music, and no amount of clamping down will change that. And anybody who'd expend energy preventing people from hearing music seems not to understand the basic principal of making music in the first place. It's so antithetical to being a musician.
I mean, I do have to be a businessman. Wilco has been a business for a long time, and it's our livelihood. But I can't see how it would ever benefit anybody for me to put that first.
AVC: Going back to the idea of the album as an art form, it seemed that for a time, especially in the '70s, artists recording for major labels had access to the best songwriters, the top session players, and the hottest producers, and they'd put albums together with a lot of variety and overall flow. Albums were designed to make a lot of money, but artistically, they also seemed so generous.
JT: I know exactly what you're talking about. I love that type of record. Something that's been said a lot about Sky Blue Sky is that it sounds like it's from that time period, probably because that's a common ground we all have as six separate musicians, that era from around 1966 to 1974. It was part of our collective formative years.
It reminds me of how much was lost with the gains of punk rock. Punk rock messed up a lot of shit. As much as I love it and as much as it's probably the main reason I'm making records today, it really threw out a lot of stuff that wasn't so bad. It wasn't such a bad thing to have people working hard at making up songs. It wasn't all just rock-star excess, and it didn't all need to be torn down. I understand why punk was seen as a necessity then, but I don't know why there's still some sort of idea that musicianship is uncool.
AVC: We had a debate on our website recently about whether guitar solos are lame. Judging by Sky Blue Sky, you seem to be very much pro-guitar-solo.
JT: I'm pro music. Guitar solos in general aren't one way or the other. There's good ones and there's bad ones. There are reasons for them that are legitimate, and reasons that aren't legitimate. I mean, it's just some fucking dude making sound with his fucking hands. [Laughs.] I don't really see how there could be a debate. And not just guitar solos, but all solos, dating back a long, long time. It's just a way for people to express themselves with an instrument. How could I argue with it?
AVC: I think the broader issue in the debate is tight songcraft vs. loose jamming. In your career, you seem to keep moving toward loose jamming.
JT: I understand that it's fun for people to draw those lines in the sand. I don't see why, as a band, you can't pursue both. I don't really feel like it's productive to box yourself in. Anything musical, the whole fun of it is not knowing what's best or what's right. That's one of the reasons I'm making music and not working at a university or in an office. I don't have to come up with a coherent philosophy. I don't have to establish a set of rules that has to be adhered to. I wake up every day and kind of do whatever I choose.
AVC: Over the last two records, you seem to be more interested in embracing the messes in your music: those moments that sort of pop up spontaneously. As opposed to Yankee Hotel Foxtrot or Summerteeth, which felt more fussed-over. Was that a conscious choice?
JT: No. And I think that every record you mentioned was a mess, to be honest. Summerteeth and Yankee Hotel Foxtrot are messier to me, when I think back on them, than the last two records, and especially this most recent one. There's a lot more thought put into every song on Sky Blue Sky than Yankee Hotel Foxtrot. Infinitely more thought. The presentation was much more scrutinized on Summerteeth and Yankee Hotel Foxtrot. It was like taking a pretty decent picture, then carving an ornate frame. I think a lot more effort was put into the actual picture on this record.
AVC: But Sky Blue Sky feels so spontaneous.
JT: I'm really happy that it sounds like that, because we worked very, very hard on it. We value very much the spirit of spontaneity, but we also work really hard to get it like that. [Laughs.] I don't know how to explain it, you know? It's one of those "you know it when you hear it" things. But it takes more work than people would probably believe.
AVC: What does Loose Fur do for you, in terms of how you work with Wilco?
JT: It's another chance to make a record. Most people don't get to make very many records, and every opportunity you have to make a record and finish it and put it out into the world, it's great. I love Jim [O'Rourke]. He's one of my best friends, if not my best friend, and I think we just kind of wallow in it any time we get a chance to be in a studio together. Glenn [Kotche] and Jim and I, that's kind of the way we hang out. It's hard for me to distinguish what I'm getting out of that experience and bringing back to Wilco. It's just another chance to play the guitar and sing. [Laughs.]
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