Pod people
A talk with a NPR's esoteric selector
Bob Boilen
As the heady days of the early millennium dawned on new musical frontiers, Bob Boilen, music producer for NPR’s All Things Considered, soldiered into the Wild West of Internet radio, creating a new show with a quaint combination of streaming audio and text. Eight years later, Boilen’s All Songs Considered has gone on to become one of NPR’s most popular podcasts, branching out into three separate programs, including a showcase dedicated to unsigned artists (Second Stage), and, starting earlier this year, a live-concert podcast series recorded at venues in Washington, D.C. Boilen’s shows have included a number of Colorado acts at varying stages of success—including DeVotchKa, Bela Karoli, and Colder Than Fargo—as well as national luminaries from Vampire Weekend to Lou Reed. Decider spoke with Boilen about how he decides what music to feature and how podcasts are democratic.
Decider: What is the selection process that goes into deciding what bands get their shows on All Songs Considered?
Bob Boilen: It’s really about what their material is at the point of the show. I’m not a big reader of music stuff. I’m more of a listener, so I don’t know a lot about reputation. I go out based on the strength of the record. Therefore, you can wind up with a band such as The Fiery Furnaces, who I’m madly in love with, doing a show that was a huge disappointment. The chaotic synth that attracted me to that band on the record was dropped completely in the show. I admire artists who take a different approach live, but for them, I didn’t think it worked. Then you take someone such as Ben Gibbard, whose songs I like quite a bit. His solo act, I wasn’t quite sure what to expect, but it was really captivating. The best part about our podcasts is that most bands allow the shows to be broadcasted live on our website. As the name gets out there, we’ll have this concert for people.
D: The bands featured on All Songs Considered seem to vary considerably, from complete unknowns to more established artists. Is this diversity a conscious decision?
BB: I get like, 150 CDs a week. Every press release we get goes right into the recycle bin, unread. The process for me is a razorblade to open the package, putting the CDs in a pile, and then grabbing stuff and listening. It doesn’t matter if the band is popular or not, because I often don’t know what I’m listening to when I put it on. If something gets me on the first cut, I’ll give it another song. If it doesn’t, I’ll put it into the giveaway stack. In order to keep my show honest and fresh, I’ve got to listen blindly and choose what we play from there. The benefit of that is that you give the new guy as good of a chance as the establishment. We got so deluged with people’s Office Depot CD-Rs that we started Second Stage as a parallel show. Also, there are some musical tastes that just don’t hit me, and I won’t put anything on if I can’t fall behind it. You don’t find much hip-hop on the show because I’ve never been able to connect with too much of it. There are plenty of venues for that, so I won’t do something that I don’t feel really strongly about.
D: Your show first started back in 2000 as a stream on the NPR website, but is now dominantly heard through podcasts. How has that shift changed what you do?
BB: I absolutely love podcasting; they are totally liberating. They are just perfect. Being a podcaster is a totally democratic experience. The complaint we used to hear when we started the stream was that people listening didn’t want to be tied to their computer in order to listen. Music podcasts are difficult, however, because it takes an awful lot of legwork to get the permission to use all of those songs. It can really be a nightmare. Record companies are more likely to give you the rights for streaming audio, and even that can be a headache. I’ve had screaming battles with labels about how idiotic it is for them to not give us the whole song. When we moved to podcasts, it frightened a lot of labels. If you listen to our early podcasts, you’ll hear one-minute selections, because we couldn’t get the rights for the whole song. Things have changed since then, but there are some occasions when we’re still met with some resistance.
Bob Boilen: It’s really about what their material is at the point of the show. I’m not a big reader of music stuff. I’m more of a listener, so I don’t know a lot about reputation. I go out based on the strength of the record. Therefore, you can wind up with a band such as The Fiery Furnaces, who I’m madly in love with, doing a show that was a huge disappointment. The chaotic synth that attracted me to that band on the record was dropped completely in the show. I admire artists who take a different approach live, but for them, I didn’t think it worked. Then you take someone such as Ben Gibbard, whose songs I like quite a bit. His solo act, I wasn’t quite sure what to expect, but it was really captivating. The best part about our podcasts is that most bands allow the shows to be broadcasted live on our website. As the name gets out there, we’ll have this concert for people.
D: The bands featured on All Songs Considered seem to vary considerably, from complete unknowns to more established artists. Is this diversity a conscious decision?
BB: I get like, 150 CDs a week. Every press release we get goes right into the recycle bin, unread. The process for me is a razorblade to open the package, putting the CDs in a pile, and then grabbing stuff and listening. It doesn’t matter if the band is popular or not, because I often don’t know what I’m listening to when I put it on. If something gets me on the first cut, I’ll give it another song. If it doesn’t, I’ll put it into the giveaway stack. In order to keep my show honest and fresh, I’ve got to listen blindly and choose what we play from there. The benefit of that is that you give the new guy as good of a chance as the establishment. We got so deluged with people’s Office Depot CD-Rs that we started Second Stage as a parallel show. Also, there are some musical tastes that just don’t hit me, and I won’t put anything on if I can’t fall behind it. You don’t find much hip-hop on the show because I’ve never been able to connect with too much of it. There are plenty of venues for that, so I won’t do something that I don’t feel really strongly about.
D: Your show first started back in 2000 as a stream on the NPR website, but is now dominantly heard through podcasts. How has that shift changed what you do?
BB: I absolutely love podcasting; they are totally liberating. They are just perfect. Being a podcaster is a totally democratic experience. The complaint we used to hear when we started the stream was that people listening didn’t want to be tied to their computer in order to listen. Music podcasts are difficult, however, because it takes an awful lot of legwork to get the permission to use all of those songs. It can really be a nightmare. Record companies are more likely to give you the rights for streaming audio, and even that can be a headache. I’ve had screaming battles with labels about how idiotic it is for them to not give us the whole song. When we moved to podcasts, it frightened a lot of labels. If you listen to our early podcasts, you’ll hear one-minute selections, because we couldn’t get the rights for the whole song. Things have changed since then, but there are some occasions when we’re still met with some resistance.
