Ray McKinnon on playing Walton Goggins' dad and getting spanked by Sandra Bullock

“Cut,” said the director—I believe he was a British gentleman. He said, “Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, come over here. Okay, we’re all friends here.” And I’m like, “What in the hell is he talking about? He’s saying something to me, and I’m not sure what.” So I finally went, “Was that too big?” He said, “Just a bit. Back to one!” That was my day as “Man With Basketball.” 

AVC: How do you prepare for “Man With Basketball”?

RM: Fortunately, I prepared early. During my entire childhood, including high school, I played basketball. I was used to having a basketball in my arms. That’s about the extent of it. I think the preparation is you’re in a hurry. You’re in your own movie that nobody’s filming. You’re going somewhere else and you stop through Swoosie Kurtz’s movie and you say your lines and you say why you’re there and all those actor things.

Driving Miss Daisy (1989)—”Trooper #1″

AVC: IMDb has Driving Miss Daisy listed as your first onscreen credit. 

RM: That was my first role. 

AVC: You’re acting against Jessica Tandy, who was already a legend, and Morgan Freeman, who after Street Smart is really becoming a name, and you’re the new guy on set. What was that like?

RM: When I got the job, I was, of course, excited. I show up on location and somebody comes up to me and hands me a wad of money. And I’m like, “What is this?” They say, “It’s per diem.” I said, “For what?” They said, “It’s your money per day, you buy food, dinner, all that.” So, then I go to makeup. I sit in this little honey wagon until lunch. Nothing has happened. And I go to lunch, and I try to pay the chef. I swear. And he’s like, “What are you doing?” I said, “Aren’t I supposed to pay for this? ” He’s like, “No, this is free.” I put the money back in my pocket and said, “I gotta get more of this work.” And then I didn’t work the first day and they kept me over that night. They put me up, they paid me per diem. I was cleaning carpets to make money and I made another $300. 

Finally, toward the end of the second day, they called me out to work with Jessica Tandy and Morgan Freeman, who I had seen in the theater in Atlanta before he was Morgan Freeman—such a great actor. The way I won the audition, I watched other people doing it, and they did it pretty broad, and I just played it real quiet and still as opposed to, “Hey, Mister. I’ll tell you what!” I didn’t want that. 

But when I got there, I could tell they’d already shot a lot of stuff, and they felt really good about their work, about the movie. A lot of the crew were like, “Let’s hope this guy is good.” And the first take, I pushed a little bit. I was nervous. [Director] Bruce Beresford and Morgan Freeman and Jessica Tandy were just delightful. They know that for the show to be good, all actors need to be good, and they were present and all of that. And Bruce Beresford said, “Do it the way you did it in the audition.”

Paris Trout (1991)—”Carl Bonner”

AVC: Correct me if I misheard you, but you were also cleaning carpets while you were acting?

RM: Oh, yes. It was a great job because you could schedule your carpet cleaning around your auditions. If you had an audition that day you’d run to the parking deck and change your clothes, go do your audition, and then come back and get in your little truck and go clean carpet. I think a lot of people, especially character actors, had to support themselves until they found their way—if they were fortunate enough to find their way.

AVC: When did you stop working part-time jobs and fully commit to acting? 

RM: [Laughs.] When I could afford to. I decided to move out to Los Angeles after I’d done a role in a movie called Paris Trout starring Ed Harris, Dennis Hopper, Barbara Hershey. Stephen Gyllenhaal directed. They were gonna cast it in L.A., but they cast me, and that was a big break. I’d saved my money, and that’s when I took off. I wasn’t going to bring my carpet machine, but the guy I was going to room with, whose last name was the same as mine, ironically, he said, “Please bring it and teach me how.” So, I brought my carpet-cleaning machine across the United States in my Ford Ranger truck, and then I taught Bruce how to clean carpet, which he did for the next number of years. 

AVC: Were you still cleaning carpets in L.A.? 

RM: I didn’t have to. I did a couple of times for Bruce. This one time he asked me to do it, and I went and it was a clothing-optional apartment, swear to God. Swear to God. And I’m going to tell you, there were the stereotypical dudes that you think would be at that place. And there was one really pretty young woman. All those guys were at the pool with the young woman. It took me a long time to clean that apartment, I’ll tell you that. [Laughs.] Only in L.A.

AVC: What was it about that movie that made you think this was the time to go to L.A. and commit?

RM: Because they were planning to cast this out of L.A. They didn’t think anybody in Atlanta could do the role. But the casting agent said, “Just look at a couple of people.” And so Stephen Gyllenhaal literally made me come back, like, five times. But then he said, “You’re the guy.” It was a really good role for me. And I thought, “Well, now that shows me that I can compete with people in L.A. and now is the time to do it.”

In The Heat Of The Night (1989-91)—various roles

Murder In Mississippi (1990)—”Lyle’s Father” 

AVC: So, you were in Atlanta—

RM: With my carpet cleaner.

AVC: You’re doing TV movies and In The Heat Of The Night, right?

RM: Brother, if you did not do Heat Of The Night as an Atlanta actor—you should seriously question your career choice! And I got on twice! First time with Walton Goggins, my buddy. I played the head crack dealer and he played the kid on the bike who would take around the dope. And then I died in that one and came back as the town editor another year. 

AVC: Which is appropriate because I know you love writing. 

RM: It was great. I thought I would be a journalist at one time. Thank God I didn’t.

AVC: I know that you caught the acting bug relatively late in college, but when did you give up the dream of becoming a journalist?

RM: Well, I was pretty much a F-up between 15 and 30, really. It’s not that I caught the acting bug late, I just never had the courage. I was too self-conscious. I couldn’t get up. I couldn’t audition. Finally, this girlfriend of mine at the time set me up with an audition and I was going to back out of that, but the guy made me go up there and I got a role. From then on, it was over. My mom’s like, “Can’t you at least get a teaching degree just to back that up?” I said, “No, I’m going all out.” And, what, 10 years later, I did my first movie. 

AVC: But your mom acted, right?

RM: That’s probably why she wanted me to get a backup. No, she just wanted me to be happy, and she got to see that I did fairly well. And that’s a great thing.

AVC: You mentioned Walton Goggins and working with him on In The Heat Of The Night in that one episode. Was that the first time you worked with him? 

RM: No, I worked with him on this TV movie before that. And he was, like, 15. He was playing a character called Lyle. And I was playing a character called Lyle’s Father, so you can imagine who had the bigger role. But he wanted to sit beside me when we were doing a read-through. And I looked at him, like, “Oh my God, he doesn’t look anything like me. They’re gonna fire me if they see us together.” So I asked him to sit across the table and he’s like, “Okay…What a rude guy.” So that was our introduction. But he was a really good actor even then.

The Accountant (2002)—”The Accountant”

The X-Files (2002)—”Mad Wayne”

AVC: How did you guys end up hitting it off?

RM: We did those shows together and I was a bit older than him. We both came out to L.A. at the same time and we’d see each other once in a while, but I didn’t wanna redo my early 20s again. They were painful enough the first time. So, we didn’t lose touch, but we didn’t see each other that often. I think he reached out to me, I don’t remember, but he came to the house with his new wife and Lisa and I were there. I read him The Accountant just for fun. And I didn’t think he would do it. I wasn’t even thinking about him doing it, and he said he wanted to be a part of it. That was really the beginning. He was obviously a good actor, but also a good person to have on your team. He could be a really good producer, he could be a really good director. He’s got a great eye. He’s a very talented dude. And so that was how we all got together and went on that crazy journey for a decade or so.

AVC: Did you write The Accountant to get yourself a lead role or was there something else involved?

RM: I wish I were more thoughtful like that. For 15 years, I’d been trying to make a film and I couldn’t get a feature film made. You know, it’s hard to raise all that money. I was heading toward 40 and I’m like, “You know what? If I don’t make a movie now, I don’t think I’ll ever make a movie.” So I said, “I’m gonna at least make a short.” My mantra was, “I’m gonna die anyway. Might as well make a movie.” And then I felt like, if it sucks, you know, my mother was one of the investors and an uncle and a family friend—I’ll show it to them and then I’ll bury it.

But the genesis of the story came from so many things that I’m interested in as a person. I grew up in an agricultural community. I saw farmers lose their farms. I was a night auditor in a hotel and I liked the idea of someone using numbers to figure out all these things. And this character just kind of manifested in my imagination.

We had no ambitions. I had no ambitions for anything. We didn’t get the dailies until two weeks after we shot. We didn’t know what we had. We were using short ends, which is pieces of reels, that Ridley Scott’s company had donated to us. It was a really hand-done thing. Once we started putting it together, we thought, it’s going to be all right. It’s going to be a decent story, but we had no idea that it was going to keep going up the ladder. 

The movie is 38 minutes and 36 seconds long. I never thought about trying to put it up for the Oscars. If it had been a minute and a half longer, it wouldn’t have qualified. We didn’t think about that. We didn’t care about that. We just wanted to make it the length it was, and that’s how it all came together. It was so much fun and so gratifying. I remember at the end of it all, I told Walt and Lisa, “Man, all I know is I hope we get to do this again, because it was so much fun.” It was hard, but it was also exhilarating.

AVC: What’s it like to win an Academy Award?

The worst part was it was down to 10 films that they were going to take down to five, and those five would be nominated. And I thought, “Number six through 10, nobody knows who they are.” When we found out this could be a possibility, we were like, “Let’s just get nominated.” But another little caveat was we hadn’t cleared our music. And the Academy said, “Hey, if you don’t have your music cleared, you won’t be eligible.” We spent more on clearing the music rights than we did on the film!

Anyway, we got all that worked out and then by the time we went to that event, I thought I was gonna throw up on the third row, I was so nervous. [Laughs.] And then it just went away. The nerves went away and for some reason, because our category was toward the end of the whole thing, I just felt really calm and grateful. But then thinking about winning an Academy Award, I was like, “Oh, shit.” It’s never simple for me. It’s always some complicated thing, which is, now do I have to be a citizen or something? What exactly do citizens do? I don’t think I’ll like it. You’d think it would be more like, “Yeah, great!” But it’s more like, “I don’t know.” But now I’m grateful for it, of course. 

AVC: One reason why Burt Reynolds joined Randy And The Mob was he was a big fan of The Accountant. What were some of the other benefits that came because of The Accountant?

RM: With Burt, I did an X-Files. He was playing this symbolic character called God and I was playing this character called Mad Wayne, who was like a serial killer, the Devil side of it. And that’s where I met him, even though, of course, I’ve known him all my life. He was born 60 miles from where I was born. Once we did that role together, I slipped him [The Accountant], because I’d already written that story but I wanted him to see what I did first. 

Then Kurt Sutter, who wrote on The Shield and then he created Sons Of Anarchy—well, Walt worked on The Shield and he’d make Kurt and all those guys come to all of our movies. Kurt had seen a lot of our movies and that we went down a different path. One of the reasons that he gave me this wonderful role on Mayans M.C. was because he said, “I knew you’d bring something different to it.” Deadwood—David Milch had seen [The Accountant]. I’d also worked with David on NYPD Blue. I think, over time, people think of you a little differently than just an actor, and that has a tiny bit of cachet. 

AVC: So The Accountant was kind of like a business card or an elevated audition tape? 

RM: I mean, in hindsight, but the reasons I made it were not those reasons. I did write this role for me, and it was a fucking great role. And I thought if I’m going go to all this trouble, I’m gonna play that character. It could have sucked. The fact that it turned out well, and people responded to it, that was icing on the cake. I should’ve acted like I really intended all that, but I didn’t. You know what it is, man? If you have stories to tell, I don’t mean this [to be] elitist, because it’s not that, just be an artist. Be a storyteller. Do your thing. Go do it. Don’t get business cards and start handing them out. Be an artist. That’s my advice.

AVC: It seems like all that work led to Rectify. 

RM: No doubt. And you’re older and you’re more mature. And your writing’s gotten more mature. To be able to do that for four seasons was the artistic gift of my life.

Randy And The Mob (2007)—”Cecil Pearson”/”Randy Pearson”

Needful Things (1993)—”Deputy Norris Ridgewick”

AVC: How difficult was it to direct yourself in a feature, especially since you’re playing two different characters?

RM: [Laughs.] What a megalomaniac! Just physically, I could not have done that one year after I did it. It was grueling. But we—Lisa, Walton, and I—really did our homework. We rehearsed. They had my back too if I went off a path. And just having fun as opposed to being afraid. I say that gratitude and fear can’t exist in the same place. So, we were just having a ball. 

AVC: There wasn’t a lot of time to be scared. You had, what, a 22-day shoot?

RM: [Laughs.] That is a fact. And that’s what happened in The Accountant and Randy And The Mob and Chrystal and all the Rectifys. You’re focused on what’s right in front of you. You have to be. And if you’re focused on something, then all the other stuff goes out of the way. You’re making a million decisions and you hope most of them are good ones.

AVC: I’m sure you can’t willingly tumble down a pile of garbage if you’re not having fun.

RM: [Laughs.] Well, we had a stunt guy. He did a take and he was wonderful. But I looked at the video. I’m like, “I don’t care how far back you are, you’re going know that’s a stunt guy.” So, I was like, “Oh, shit. Let’s go, man! Here we go!” We made Lisa stay at home that day because she would have tried to circumvent bad judgment.

AVC: How many showers did you need after that? 

RM: Oh, Lord. I think three did it. Three was good. It’s not that easy to get peanut butter with food coloring in it off you.

AVC: One thing I noticed while I watched the movie was just how many folks in it have passed away: Bill Nunn, Lisa, of course, Burt Reynolds, Brent Briscoe. How is it watching the movie now?

RM: You go through life and life is going to eventually take us all. These losses, they start coming up. And I’m very aware of that with Randy And The Mob. What’s sad about loss and about somebody losing their own life is if you don’t feel like they had their full time. I feel so lucky. I’ve had cancer. I’ve had really bad decisions in my twenties and teens. I’m still here and I’m really grateful. Honestly, I was not looking forward to doing this, because of all the sadness that is attached to it. But what I’ve found is in doing these interviews is the joy that we had is more powerful than the sadness of the loss. And I’m grateful for that. I say this about writing and about storytelling. Mortality colors everything. If you didn’t have mortality in a story, you wouldn’t have very many great stories. 

AVC: You and Lisa met doing Needful Things? 

RM: That’s true. 

AVC: If memory serves, she had greens and you had hot sauce.

RM: [Laughs.] That’s true. Oh my God! Yes, she was from Arkansas, and I was from Georgia and we were outside of Vancouver in Gibsons. Her mom sent her greens and other stuff and my mom sent me pepper sauce. We had a Canadian teamster who would take the pepper sauce and put it on his deer meat. I said, “Oh, that’s another way to do it.” Getting to know Lisa then, she loved indie films. She was a big indie film person. So, when I told her I wanted to make an indie, she was like, “So do I. I want to do it. Let’s do it.”

That was the beginning. The other truth is, Lisa saw something in me as a writer and said, “You have to write.” I grew up in a place where you heard, “Who do you think you are sometimes?” and “Don’t be too big.” It was scary to hand your own writing to somebody because this came from you. I don’t think I would have been a writer without her, for sure. 

She thought I was talented as a writer. She wasn’t one that would just say something if she didn’t believe it. She did this for a lot of people that she believed in, but for me, it’s the difference between me becoming a writer and not becoming a writer. With losing faith and quitting. She shored me up, for sure. Anything that I’ve ever done since, a lot of the credit goes to Lisa.

O Brother, Where Art Thou? (2000)—”Vernon T. Waldrip”

Sisters (1994)—”Billy”

AVC: How many times have you been called “bona fide”? 

RM: Oh my gosh. A lot. There’s a whole segment of the population that has seen very little else of what I’ve done. But also, that’s probably the only Coen Brothers movie they’ve watched, and they watch it over and over and over. And they love it. It’s primarily Southerners who love someone making fun of their culture. I think they love it because it’s done in a loving way.

AVC: What was it like being in that movie?

RM: This is how long I’ve been around the block. Years ago, before George did E.R., he was doing a recurring role on a show called Sisters. I was playing that week’s serial killer. And we went and did the proverbial go play basketball at lunch. I didn’t know George Clooney at all. He’s just an actor. Nice guy. And he said, “Yeah, yeah. These are my last few episodes because I’m getting ready to go do this pilot that Michael Crichton had written as a book and I think it’s gonna really take off.” And that was E.R. And then he did E.R. and blew up. And then he did Batman [& Robin] and blew up further. So, by the time that I saw him in O Brother, Where Art Thou? I’m like, “Damn, brother, you can’t even leave your house anymore.”

Deadwood (2004)—”Rev. H.W. Smith”

Oh, buddy. What a gift that was. That was the first time anybody outside of me had given me such a great role. David Milch, who I had worked with on NYPD Blue, he just kept expanding the role. The character was supposed to die after the third episode. And he got this idea. He’s like, “What do you think about the character having this tumor?” I said, “Oh, I’d love it, man. Whatever you say, brother.”

I watched him continue to evolve Reverend Smith and he was a lovely character. It was hard for me to totally embody him because he was such a good person. I had to dig deep every time I’d play him. It took a couple of takes before I finally found him and would go on the journey with him. I loved him as a person. He was just so innocent and good.

Take Shelter (2011)—”Kyle”

Mud (2012)—”Senior”

RM: I moved to Little Rock with Lisa. Somebody emailed me and said this young filmmaker was trying to raise more money for this first film he made called Shotgun Stories. That’s where I met Jeff and already you could see his talent. And for some reason, he loved Chrystal. He made the guys from Shotgun Stories, before they shot, watch Chrystal and watch the realism of the characters. We maintained a friendship and then he offered me this role in Take Shelter and then he offered me this unbelievable role in Mud. I’m about to go do another little role for him at the end of April.

Take Shelter I was only there for a day playing the brother, which was a wonderful little role. But I got to spend more time on Mud and on that character. I loved his paradoxical nature that Jeff had created on paper and to have that relationship with a son…I don’t have a son, but I just thought what a great opportunity to pretend like I have this kid. And I still keep up with [Tye Sheridan], too. He’s a wonderful young man. He’s so sweet. He still takes my calls.

AVC: With Jeff Nichols, what do you think has contributed to that long-term relationship?

RM: Because I’m so cheap, and he can afford me. These other guys are too big. No, I think he wants an authenticity for those stories that he makes and I can’t figure out why he keeps calling me, but I’m grateful for it. One of the benefits, now that I’m in my hundreds, is quite a few people this past year that either I’ve worked for before or they’ve worked for me give me roles to play. You get older and then stuff like that can happen.

The Blind Side (2009)—”Coach Cotton”

RM: I have this schizophrenic set of characters. The character in Mayans is an on-the-spectrum sociopath. And then there’s Reverend Smith, and then there’s Coach Cotton. Honestly, it was John Lee Hancock, who adapted the book. I’d done some screenplay readings for him in the past. We met on this Clint Eastwood movie set in Texas (1993’s A Perfect World). He called me and said, “I want you to look at the coach in this new movie I’m doing.” And so he sent the script and I started looking for the other coach, the one with a smaller role. [Laughs.] “No, that’s the coach.” Two things: I was like, “Oh, good. I get my insurance for the year,” which is important. And, secondly, holy shit, what a great role.

It was working with Sandra Bullock and I love football. I went to my friend, who’s a high school football coach, and hung out with him at his practices. It was really fun. And I didn’t realize, of course, that it was going to be such a movie that people like to come back to over and over and over. I used to be, I guess, self-conscious about it. Now, I’m just grateful about it, because when somebody comes up to you, it’s not really about you. It’s about them and their experience. And the least I can do is be gracious.

AVC: The first practice, where Sandra Bullock butts in, was her slapping your ass in the script or was that impromptu? 

RM: That was an ad-lib whack. Perfectly ad-libbed by a very smart, sharp, funny actress.

AVC: It looked like she made a good connection. 

RM: She did get a good connection—on my bum!

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.