Michael Madsen on Donnie Brasco, Free Willy, and life in the Tarantino club

Welcome to Random Roles, wherein we talk to actors about the characters who defined their careers. The catch: They donât know beforehand what roles weâll ask them to talk about.
The actor: Michael Madsen was originally just fine with letting his little sister Virginia be the designated actor in their family. Thatâs likely how things wouldâve stayed if his decision to tag along to an audition with one of his paramedic-school classmates hadnât led to a role in a major motion picture. In the 30-plus years since, he has appeared in more than 170 movies. His biggest break came when he found his way into the cast of Quentin Tarantinoâs Reservoir Dogs, which established him as a go-to guy for tough-guy parts. Madsen’s relationship with Tarantino continuesâheâs in the cast of The Hateful Eightâbut he can currently be seen taking a more comedic turn, starring on Comedy Centralâs Big Time In Hollywood, FL.
Big Time In Hollywood, FL (2015)ââDetective Scolesâ
Michael Madsen: This kind of came out of nowhere, which really surprised me, because I donât think Iâm predominantly thought of as being a comedic actor. [Laughs.] So when I first heard about it, it was just a random call that I got from my manager, and I was really so surprised at the content of it, that they would think of me for something that funny. I was happy, though. It was very flattering. I couldnât wait to meet the guys and actually see what I could do with it. I wasnât sure how they wanted me to play it, and I kind of had to take it spontaneously.
The A.V. Club: Well, itâs certainly a show with a dark streak, so you can see how you could fit in.
MM: Well, itâs got a dark streak, but it is funny. Itâs terribly funny. I fought kind of hard to keep a straight face for a lot of stuff we did.
AVC: So who is Detective Scoles in a nutshell?
MM: Well, I think heâs a bit confused. [Laughs.] I think heâs somewhere between Columbo and⌠God, who would be the opposite of Columbo? Heâs stuck between Columbo and Steve McGarrett. Iâm not sure where heâs at. Or maybe between Barney Fife and Steve McGarrett.
AVC: Thatâs a hell of a middle ground.
MM: [Laughs.] Well, you want to leave the door open.
AVC: How well defined was the character when you first got the script, and how much did they let you play with it once you got the role?
MM: Well, I think the genius of the boysâand Ben [Stiller], of course, whoâs at the helm of the whole thingâI think they purposely looked for an actor type that could bring what they were thinking about the character, claiming that they were thinking of me from the beginning. Itâs always easier for an actor when you know they thought of you personally, because then basically you have to do your thing and what you think theyâre used to seeing you do, as opposed to trying to create some otherworldly thing. Or to go into read for something, which is, like, the worst experience in the world. Iâve never been able to read for anything, and every time I have, Iâve never gotten the part. And I donât know why that is. I just canât. Reading or auditioning for something⌠Itâs like itâs this mental block in my brain, and I just canât do it. But when people ask you to do stuff without making you go through that, itâs a much more pleasant experience.
Sometimes Iâll find that Iâm called to do a voice-over for a video game, which Iâve done a couple of times, and itâs kind of funny when youâre in the booth and recording, and suddenly thereâs silence, and they say, âUh, you know, thatâs a bit dark.â And then I say, âWell, guys, you know⌠[Laughs.] If thatâs a bit dark, why donât you call Scott Baio?â Or Iâll get, âCan you try to do it a little more threatening?â And Iâll say, âUm, well, I kind of thought it was there.â Itâs funny how when people want you in a room, but when you get into the room, you turn into somewhat of a puppet. And then in the end, after you do it 10 different ways, they go back to the way you did it the first time. But itâs all fun. Itâs a creative experience.
I had a really good time with those kids. Theyâre young, theyâre excited, and Comedy Centralâs a great place to be. When it was over, I asked if I could come back, maybe as another character this time. My evil twin or something. I mean, weâll see how it goes. But, you know, itâs hard to make a crew laugh, because usually crews are so used to hearing and seeing so many things that it kind of goes right over their heads, or they donât laugh because itâs rude, or whatever. But, man, I donât know about the days I wasnât there, but the days I was there, there was a lot of cracking up. [Laughs.] Itâs a good thing they had a video room that was away from the site, because there was a lot of laughter.
Against All Hope (1982)ââCecil Moeâ
AVC: It looks your first on-camera role was in a film called Against All Hope.
MM: Well, that was actually done for prisons, I think. Believe it or not, I think it was made for the rehabilitation of prisoners, guys who were getting out of penitentiaries after long periods of time. Or it was supposed to be used for some sort of message thing for, like, therapy hospitals. [Hesitates.] You know, it was really never defined to me what it was made for. But, yeah, it seems like there were dinosaurs roaming the earth when I did that thing. [Laughs.] That was a long time ago.
I heard that [Sylvester] Stallone did an adult film, and he bought the negative and burned it, and he supposedly sent his friends around to all the stores to get all the copies. Against All Hope is one of those. If I could get hold of it, Iâd do the same thing!
AVC: There is unfortunately a clip on YouTubeâŚ
MM: Well, God, I⌠I hope someone will delete it. [Laughs.] I canât even imagine it what itâs like. There were a lot of interesting things I did, and there are a lot of things that are kind of disturbing. But Iâve learned my lesson over the years about what to say and what not to say in interviews, thatâs for sure.
AVC: How did you find your way into acting in the first place?
MM: I was basically an auto mechanic in Chicago, and it was my sister Virginia [Madsen] who was the actress in the family. I kind of lucked into the whole thing through a series of unplanned events. I had thought about acting, for sure. I mean, I loved watching movies. I liked Humphrey Bogart, I was a big Lee Marvin fan, and I liked Robert Mitchum. But the likelihood of one personâlet alone two, a brother and a sisterâcoming out of the south side of Chicago from a blue-collar family and making it in the film industry is pretty astronomical, if you stop and think about it. Virginia was doing it long before I was.
I was pumping gas in Beverly Hills at the Union 76 and, Jesus, everybody you could imagine went through there. Jack Lemmon and Fred Astaire, Cicely Tyson and Warren Beatty⌠every day Iâd be squeegeeing the windshield of somebody Iâd seen in a movie growing up. It was pretty surreal. And I ended up meeting a young lady who got me an agent, and they started submitting me on episodic television shows. So I did Miami Vice, Cagney & Lacey, Tour Of Duty, Jake And The Fat Man, St. Elsewhere, and did I say Cagney & Lacey? Because Tyne Daly won an Emmy for the episode that I did with her, and she didnât even mention my name when she accepted it. That was⌠interesting. Yeah.
But it was a slow, unexpected thing that kind of evolved, and then I started getting movie offers. Itâs a much longer story than that, but it didnât happen in the usual way, put it that way.
WarGames (1983)ââSteveâ
MM: That was what actually brought me to L.A. in the first place. I had met a casting director by accident. I was going to school to be a paramedic. I was making $2.50 an hour pumping gas and going to school to be a paramedic, and one of the guys in my class was an actor, and he went to an audition. We used to ride the train together to go to school, so I went to the audition with him, just to wait for him to get finished. And after he got done reading, I was walking out the door with him, and one of the people who was there was from L.A., and he goes, âWhere are you going?â And Iâm, like, âUm, Iâm leaving?â He said, âWhy didnât you read?â I said, âWell, I didnât come here to do that. Iâm just with my friend.â And he goes, âHave you ever considered being an actor?â And I said, âWell, no, not really.â It was a very odd experience. And then he said, âWell, would you be willing to read?â And I said, âUm⌠Well, yeah!â Meanwhile, my friend, I realized, wanted to choke me. He couldâve killed me at that minute. And I understand now why he was mad, but I didnât know then.
So we went and sat on these little chairs, and he gave me a piece of paper, and he goes, âHere, read this.â I said, âOkay.â He said, âYouâre this guy and Iâm that guy.â I said, âOkay.â And I read it with him, and then he was, like, âHmmmâŚâ I just remember him staring at me for a good five seconds, and then he goes, âYou know, if you went to L.A. or New York, you could get work as an actor.â And I said, âWell, buddy, you know, me and my $400 that I have to my name probably couldnât get me that far, so I doubt thatâs gonna happen.â But he asked me if I knew what an agent was, and I said, âWell, yeah, my sister has one.â And he said, âIf I was to call her, would I be able to reach you?â I said, âYeah, probably.â And thatâs how I got Steve in WarGames.
They brought me from Chicago to L.A. to do that. But I actually came to California about a week before I had to start, and I went and got a job at that Union 76 I mentioned in full service, pumping gas and towing cars and changing flats and that sort of thing. Because I didnât want to go back. I mean, there was no way I was going to go back to Chicago. I wouldâve slept on a bench in the park if I had to. But I made sure that I had a job, so that when the movie was over, I wouldnât have to leave, you know? So, yeah, thatâs how that happened. Thatâs a true story.
Straight Talk (1992)ââSteveâ
MM: Well, I can tell you for sure that the myth or the amazement or the wonderment of whether theyâre real or not? They are. [Laughs.] They are real. And I got to knock out Jimmy Woods. With one punch! But heâs my buddy. We had lots of fun a couple of years later on The Getaway. Oh, yeah, and I remember going bowling a lot in Chicago, where we shot that thing.
AVC: And how was Dolly Parton?
MM: Sheâs a good bowler. [Laughs.]
The Getaway (1994)ââRudy Travisâ
AVC: Since you brought it upâŚ
MM: Along with what Iâm working on right now, The Getaway is probably one of the best times Iâve had making a picture. You know, fun-wise. Things like Donnie Brasco are serious and have to be done a certain way, but to use the word âfun,â that thing was just nuts. Iâd just been divorced, and it was a great part. It was a remake of a Peckinpah film, and my character was completely out of his mind, and I had Roger Donaldson at the helm. It was a pretty good movie. I donât think it was really released right. I think it shouldâve been a wider release. I think they shouldâve left it out a little bit longer.
AVC: Did you feel any intimidation at the prospect of remaking a Peckinpah film?
MM: Well, I thought it would be more difficult for Alec [Baldwin] than it would be for me, because heâs trying to redo a [Steve] McQueen picture. That was a big tack to hold on your back. But, you know, thereâs a lot of movies that should never be touched. Like, they should never try to remake Bullitt, which I heard they were gonna do. They shouldnât try to do On The Waterfront, which I heard, too. You know, there are certain things that you just canât do better, and they shouldnât even try. And I think The Getaway was⌠I mean, I couldnât say ânoâ to it. Who would? But Roger was a great director, and he handled it very well. Looking back on it, I do think Alec did a pretty damned good job. All the shootout stuff was good. Itâs an exciting picture.
You know, itâs funny: When you watch something like now, so long afterwards, it seems so much better than it was when you first saw it. I mean, thereâs Philip Seymour Hoffman! I kill him. Weâre driving down the freeway, and I shoot him and kick him out of the car, or to the side of the road. He was a completely unknown actor, and I donât think he even had more than two or three lines of dialogue in the film, but itâs funny to watch that scene and realize that years later heâs going to win an Academy Award for playing Truman Capote. Itâs so funny how these things evolve. You never know whatâs going to happen with people down the road.
Die Another Day (2002)ââDamian Falcoâ
MM: I was friends with Pierce [Brosnan] because we lived on the same stretch of beach, and our kids played together, and I joked around with him one day about being in a Bond film. I thought it would be pretty interesting to be on a resume. And Barbara Broccoli flew me to London just to meet her and talk about this little part. My mother and my sister are completely in love with Judi Dench, and Pierce is my buddy, so I went to meet Barbara, and the next thing you know, Iâve got the part. Doing a Bond picture is one of those experiences thatâs there forever, you know? It was great. We shot at Pinewood Studios, and they gave me a Jaguar to drive around in London. [Laughs.] It was nice. I used to ride my bicycle around inside the studio. It was a big set, put it that way. Bond pictures are big movies. And Lee Tamahori was also in there, and I had done Mulholland Falls with him. To get into something like that, youâve got to know more than a few people involved to get you in the door, but I loved it. It was cool being in a James Bond film.
And I got to light a cigarette! I know not many people smoke cigarettes in movies anymore, especially not in a Bond film and the way they are nowadays. To be able to light up a cigaretteâIâm still amazed that they let it stay in the film. Because I pulled it out to light it, and everyoneâs, like, âWhoa, hey, hey, hey, oh, no, no, noâŚâ And then Judi Dench, she said, âWell, I donât see anything wrong with Michaelâs character smoking a cigarette. Itâs quite apropos for him.â And then Lee was like [In a British accent.] âYeah, I think thatâs right. Yeah, thatâs a good thing. All right, Michael, weâll let you have that cigarette!â But I thought that they for sure would not leave it in the movie. But itâs kind of a funny, nice little thing that happens at the very end of my appearance.
AVC: Was there ever any talk of Damian Falco becoming a recurring character if Pierce had continued on?
MM: Well, if Pierce had continued on, I would have also. But, you know, when the new guy took over, that was it for me, too.
Mulholland Falls (1996)ââEddie Hallâ
MM: You know, that was a Lee Tamahori picture, like I said, but the problem with Mulholland Falls is⌠You know, itâs just not edited right. Itâs just not. Because it was a great story and a wonderful cast. I mean, the damned thing was shot by [cinematographer] Haskell Wexler. It was more of an editing nightmare, I think. When they put the story togetherâitâs like when Nick [Nolte] and Chazz [Palminteri] go off to meet John Malkovich, what the hell happened to the other Hats? I mean, why werenât me and Chris [Penn] on the plane? The whole story took this radical change: We were all supposed to be together, the Four Hatsâand suddenly thereâs big parts of the film when weâre not together! [Laughs.] Everybody seems to be an independent contractor. It was great to shoot it, and it was a good-looking movie, but, hey, it lost me in the way that it was cut.
Tilt (2005)ââDon âThe Matadorâ Everestâ
MM: You know, I have to say that, in honesty, after doing 10 episodes of that show, I really donât ever want to play another game of cards or see another poker chip or make another bet for the rest of my life. [Laughs.] We had to shoot two versions of every single moment. There had to be the virtual dramatic filming, and then they had to do everything again as if it was being done as a video replay for a television show, which is supposedly was at certain parts. So youâre basically playing the same hand over and over, making the same bet over and over, and it just got to be so repetitive that it made me crazy.
They built a casino on a soundstage in Toronto. We werenât anywhere near Las Vegas! It was just kind of funny going there early in the morning, before the sun comes up, in the wintertime, stepping into a soundstage, and suddenly youâre in a Vegas casino. And then once a month weâd go to Vegas and do an exterior shot, where I basically pull up in front of the Flamingo, I get out and go inside. Meanwhile, they pull a different car out in front, I change my clothes, and Iâd come back out the front door and get into that different car and drive away. Thatâs how they did all of the establishment shots of me supposedly being in Vegas⌠and that was the best part of the show! [Laughs.]
Vengeance Unlimited (1998-99)ââMr. Chapelâ
MM: You know, there again is a perfect example of a great show with a great character that had a huge following, and to this day it still does. There are people on the internet who are trying to bring it back! Mr. Chapel was a great character. I enjoyed it a lot. That thing couldâve went five or six more years if they wouldâve given it a chance. It was well-written and fun to play. The writers, they went off and did The Fugitive after that, which I wouldâve liked to have done. I wouldâve liked to have been Dr. Richard Kimble. That wouldâve been pretty cool. But they, uh, went another way with that. So itâs a mystery. A lot of people liked that show, and to this day it gets brought up. I mean, you just brought it up! [Laughs.] It could still come back, you know? Iâm still young enough, the story still works. That thing could be brought back in a second if anybody had a brain.
Quantum Leap (1989)ââBlueâ
MM: Oh, my God! That is so⌠[Starts laughing.] My character was missing a few chromosomes in that thing. I was driving around a forklift in a stocking cap, and thatâs about all I remember. No, actually, I remember being in San Pedro and mostly listening to Scott Bakula playing the piano. For some reason, they had a piano on the set, and he was constantly playing that thing. I was friends with Dean [Stockwell]. I got along good with Dean because I was friends with Dennis Hopper, and that was all good and nice, but thatâs one where, when it comes on, I either have to change the channel or I have to explain to my family that I was young and dumb and happy to have a job. But it wasnât really that memorable of a performance.
Donnie Brasco (1997)ââSonny Blackâ
My Bossâs Daughter (2003)ââT.J.â
MM: Well, you know, Donnie Brasco⌠I guess if you wanted to pick my top five, thatâd be in there. It was a pretty damned good film, and shooting in New York City wasnât bad, either. When you play a character thatâs someone real, when youâre playing a true story, itâs really great, âcause youâre not pretending to make up some silly thing. I wanted to dignify it. I wanted to give it as much respect as it deserved.
You know, speaking of auditioning for things, thatâs a perfect example, because they asked me to come in and read for it, and I said, âNo.â And they said, âWell, then youâre not gonna get the part.â I said, âWell, put it this way: If I come in and read, then I definitely wonât get it.â And theyâre, like, âMichael, youâre perfect for this.â And I said, âWell, if I am, then why donât you just give me a contract? Because I donât understand what the whole reasoning is.â For about two weeks, I didnât hear from them. Finally they said, âWould you be willing to go to New York to meet Al Pacino?â And I said, âWell, yeah, of course. But if youâre trying to bait me in there to go read, please, itâs not gonna happen. Iâd love to say âhiâ to Al, and I understand he would probably like to meet me, considering the material, but Iâm not gonna read for you guys. Itâs not gonna happen.â
So they put me on a plane, they put me up at the St. Regis, and I went to meet Al. It was like meeting some kind of diplomat. I mean, he had guys with earplugs in and bodyguards walking up one hallway and down the other. It was a very secretive trail to get to Al. And then when I finally got in his office, he was just standing with his back to me, looking out the window. I came in and I closed the door, and I was just kind of standing there. [Laughs.] And he didnât even really turn around! So there was a bookshelf, and I figured maybe he was deep in thought about something, so I turned around and pulled a book off the shelf and started looking at it⌠and all of a sudden I hear that voice. [Does a Pacino impression.] âYou like that book?â âWhat?â He goes, âYou like that book?â And Iâm, like, âUh, well, uhâŚâ I hadnât even looked to see what book it was! But I said, âYeah, itâs great.â And he goes, âSo, you like the script?â And I go, âYeah! Yeah, itâs a good script.â âWhaddaya like about it?â âWell, itâs a good story. Itâs a good story.â
I wanted the birds, though. Because Sonny had birds that he kept up on the roof. He had pigeons, and I wanted to have the pigeons. And I asked Al, âHow come the pigeons arenât in the screenplay?â And he said, âWell, because if you have the birds, then your character will have too much sympathy. And nobody wants to have sympathy for Sonny Black, you understand? So you canât have the birds.â And I said, âOkay, well, then, I guess I wonât have the freakinâ birds, butâŚâ [Laughs.] And he goes, âOkay. Okay, okay, okay. Okay!â And Iâm, like, âIs that it?â He goes, âThatâs it.â I said, âAll right.â So, you know, I was escorted out, I went back to the hotel, and I was pretty convinced that it was not gonna happen. And then they said, âOh, Michael, geez, Al likes you. Youâre in. Youâre gonna do the film.â
So I was very happy that I didnât read. I was very happy that I kept my position, because itâs such an uncomfortable, horrible thing to do. But thatâs one I didnât read for, that I refused to read for. That movieâs also sad, because Bruno Kirbyâs in it, and heâs since died. But I got some good buddies, like Jimmy Russo.
You know, later on, a couple of years later, I was in Vancouver, and I was making a picture called My Bossâs Daughter with Ashton Kutcher, and Al and I were both staying at the Four Seasons. He was staying there while he was making a film called Insomnia. I had three days off, and I wanted to go home for Fatherâs Day. I wanted to see my son. And I ran into Alâs assistant in the lobby, and I hadnât known that he was at the Four Seasons, but he goes, âOh, Michael, you know Alâs here.â And I said, âOh, really?â He says, âYeah! What are you doing?â I said, âWell, Iâve got about three days before I gotta go back to work, and I donât know what the hell to do. I canât afford a plane ticket.â And he goes, âOh, well, Iâll tell Al.â And Iâm telling you, a half hour later, I was in my room when the phone rang, and it was Al. And heâs, like, âMichael! I got a jet!â And I go, âWell, thatâs great.â [Laughs.] âGood for you! Iâm happy to hear that you have a jet. Did you call to tell me that you have a jet?â He said, âNo, do you want a ride?â Iâm, like, âA ride?â He said, âCome on and take a ride!â I said, âYeah, that would be great!â And he actually let me hitchhike with him to L.A. and back.
You know, every time I see Donnie Brasco, I appreciate it a little bit more. It was very, very well done, and Alâs performance is really underrated. Itâs a damned good movie. It really is.
The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, The Witch And The Wardrobe (2005)ââMaugrimâ (uncredited)
Green Lantern: First Flight (2009)ââKilowogâ
MM: [Uncertainly.] âMaugrimâ? No, actually, I was the voice of the wolf.
AVC: Thatâs the name of the wolf.
MM: The wolf had a name? [Laughs.] All I remember about that is that they flew me to Vancouver, and I recorded that in a production office up there, and then I literally flew back that evening, I believe. But the odd thing about that is that, if you watch the credits of that film, I donât get credit for doing the voice of the wolf. It was the name of another actor. And Iâve always been kind of not happy about that. It was explained to me that it was some sort of a snafu or some sort of an overlooked thing, because I had recorded in Canada, and it was something that happened to them contractually.
But everybody whoâs ever seen that film, they know thatâs me. Even my kids! And it was great. I never get asked to do stuff like that, and I wish it would happen more often, âcause Iâd love to do the voice of Batman, or be the villain in some of these animated things. Like, my 9-year-old is all into Legos, and he says, âHow come your voice isnât one of the Lego guys?â And I say, âWell, you know, I donât know why.â I would think I would be called more often to do stuff like that, but I donât. Itâs a mystery.
AVC: You are also the voice of Kilowog in Green Lantern: First Flight.
MM: Yeah, but that was a short-lived thing. I was supposed to come back and do more, and it never happened. I love stuff like that. Itâs fun. But I donât get enough of it.
The Natural (1984)ââBump Baileyâ
Hawaii Five-0 (2014)ââRoy Parrishâ
MM: I got offered a picture called Buckaroo Banzai and The Natural in the same week, and I couldnât really make up my mind. Iâm a big fan of Peter Weller, and I really wanted to do the picture with him, but, you know, given the chance to play a baseball player in a film where itâs based on a novel and Iâm with Bob Redford⌠It was not that hard of a choice, really. We got to play some good ball, you know, right at War Memorial Stadium, and it was really fun.
I was mercilessly cut out of that film, by the way. A lot of my stuff didnât make it into the final cut. But it was a good lesson for me, because it was one of the biggest pictures I had done at that point, and I got burned pretty badly. But I realized that the reality of making films is that what you do might not necessarily make it on the screen. Still, you know, itâs a memorable film. And like I said, I got to play ball, and that was fun.
AVC: Do you happen to recall what part you were originally going to play in Buckaroo Banzai?
MM: I think I was gonna be Perfect Tommy, if Iâm correct. Yeah, I think I was Perfect Tommy. But, you know, I just did an episode of Hawaii Five-0, and Peter Weller directed it. So it was kind of weird: We ended up working together after all!
Kill Me Again (1989)ââVince Millerâ
MM: Yeah. Oddly enough, I had been married to Georganne [LaPiere], who is the sister of Cher, who at that time was dating Val Kilmer. And Georganne and I lived out on Valâs fatherâs ranch, which he got from Roy Rogers, and our house was on Trigger Street. [Laughs.] And I got the part in the movie with Val, and it was a strange thing. You know, itâs a picture that gets better over time. Like, every time you watch it, itâs more and more interesting. I had a lot of fun with that. It was a cool character. It was fun to play guys like that. I didnât realize I was creating a stereotype of myself. I didnât realize that it was going to indelibly affect my future. But I like the film. I liked what I did in it, and I had fun with both Val and Joanne [Whalley]. And a few years later, I did The Doors with Val, and weâre still buddies. We run into each other now and then.
The Doors (1991)ââTom Bakerâ
Death In The Desert (2015)ââRay Easlerâ
AVC: Speaking of The Doors, we did this feature with Frank Whaley recently. He said he just saw you in his friend Josh Evansâ new film and that you were tremendous in it.
MM: Oh, good! Yeah, thatâs Death In The Desert. Itâs a good movie. You know, his father is Robert Evans, for Godâs sake, and his mom is Ali McGraw. Youâve got to realize what effect that would have on you growing up, with those kind of parents, that dynamic and those personalities that would form you. He made a film thatâs the reflection of what that is, and I donât think a lot of people are going to understand it. You canât just look at it simplistically, or youâll think itâs the worst movie youâve ever seen. But thereâs a lot deeper message to it. I ended up doing a voice-over for it, and I think I fixed it. Because I had seen it, and I realized that it needed to be narrated. So I wrote my own version of the narration, and I got together with Josh, and we recorded it, and he supposedly put it in the film and told me that it changed the whole movie and made it a lot better. So Iâm hoping the version that Whaley saw has the voiceover, because I heard that it repaired the film. I like Josh, though. I had fun shooting in Vegas.
AVC: The Doors seems to be regarded by everyone as a completely epic shoot on many levels.
MM: Well, it was epically proportioned. Oddly enough, my first son, Christian, had just been born at the time, and I was actually in Cedars [Sinai] in the hospital on the elevator, going up to see my baby son, and there were two nurses on the elevator who were saying that Billy Idol was in the emergency room, that he had gotten in a motorcycle accident and crushed his leg. I had gone in to meet with Oliver [Stone] about a month before that, and I actually went in to read for Jim [Morrison], because in my ridiculous mind, I honestly thought that I could play Jim Morrison. At the time, Oliver mercifully told me that he already had somebody to play Jim, but I hadnât heard back from him, and I figured, âWell, thatâs it for that.â
But the morning after Iâd heard these nurses on the elevator, Oliver called me, and he said, âListen, I had Billy Idol in this movie to play Tom Baker, but heâs been in a horrible motorcycle accident. Would you be interested in taking the part?â I said, âWell, Jesus, Oliver, I donât want to be cast in the movie based on somebody getting fucked up!â [Laughs.] But he said, âWell, Billy will still be in the film, but heâll be on a crutch, and I donât know what condition heâll be in. Itâs not much of a part, but itâs eight weeks of employment.â And that was all I needed to hear. So, yeah, I took the part, and it was a lot of mayhem, but, you know, back then, that kind of mayhem was considered to be normal. Put it this way: everything that everybody was doing, everybody was doing it, so it wasnât considered to be out of line or irresponsible or insidious. It was just what we were doing in the middle of making this movie about this person.
I respect Oliverâs movies a lot. Theyâre very detailed and very interesting, and they have a very solid way of recreating history. Itâs one of those things where it was terribly fun that I was in it, and it was an interesting character, but my character overdoses in the parkâin Duane Park, in New Yorkâand that scene was omitted from the film, and I donât really know why. Oliver claims that, at the end, the movie gets too dark, and he said that one more person dying was just too much in the movie, so he decided to remove myâTom Bakerâsâdeath scene, which I kind of regretted. I wished he wouldâve left it there. I thought I had performed it well. But, you know, you canât win âem all.
Big Apple (2001)ââTerry Maddockâ
MM: Thatâs David Milch. The mysterious David Milch, whoâll basically walk up to you with five pages of handwritten dialogue thatâs completely different from the dialogue that youâve memorized, and heâll hand it to you about 15 seconds before youâre supposed to go on camera. And he does it to everybody! And you just stand there, and you canât believe it. Itâs just completely and totally⌠âReally, David? Honestly? Can I look at this for a minute?â âNah, come on, we gotta go, we gotta go!â Oh, my lord. [Laughs.] Heâs a good guy, though. Heâs an interesting fellow. Heâs certainly a genius of a writer.
It was a good show, but I think the problem was that Ed OâNeill was so powerfully put in peopleâs brains as Al Bundy that people had a really hard time taking him seriously as a serious cop guy. And, you know, I think thatâs what happened to the show. Itâs not his fault. He was just so good at Al Bundy that I think people just had a hard time understanding what it was about, what the story was supposed to be about. But I worked with Donnie Wahlberg, who had a smaller part, and of course now heâs got his own show, and now heâs got his own hamburger joint. [Laughs.] But he was just a character actor in those days, struggling along just like me. That was a better part of my job: working with Donnie.
But my biggest regret of that show was that Ridley Scott called me and asked me to do Black Hawk Down, and I couldnât do it because I was under contract to do Big Apple.
AVC: Youâve had many a near-miss in your time.
MM: Well, yeah, but I think my better luck overrides pretty much all of that. People tend to go to the negative, and âWhat about this and what about that,â but, Jesus, Iâm pretty lucky, man. Iâve got quite a long list of good things thatâve happened. You focus on something like that, the âwhat he couldâve done,â the âwhat mightâve happened,â and itâs really grim. Iâd rather focus on what did happen.
Free Willy (1993) / Free Willy 2: The Adventure Home (1995)ââGlen Greenwoodâ
MM: Iâm glad I wasnât in Free Willy 3. Thatâs all I can say on that. I think it was an exhausted subject by then, and nobody wanted to hear from the wholesome Glen and Annie anymore. It was pretty much over. [Laughs.] Plus, you know, now, if you watch Blackfish, that kind of exposed the reality of Sea World life.
Keikoâs actually dead. I donât know if too many people know that, but they tried to free that poor animal. They towed him out into the ocean and let him go, and I think he took one look around and said, âHoly Jesus! Fuck this, Iâm going back to the tank, man! Iâd rather have some nice clean water and a pretty girl in a red bathing suit giving me fish! What the hell am I doing out here? Oh my God!â
So, you know, itâs kind of funny, really: You think about the power of the film, and people crying at the end of this wonderful story of this little boy, but then if you actually try to really recreate it in reality⌠It isnât like that, you know? He didnât want to be free. He didnât like it out there. He had nowhere to go, he had no friends, he wasnât accustomed to being free, and the whole thing was absurd. And then he actually caught a virus from being in the ocean that killed him! So you find out about all these confinements and the way theyâre treated, and that one killed a couple of people, and you see a movie like Free Willy. If they tried to make that in 2015, it would never get made.
But Iâm glad to have been in it. It was one of those things that kind of balances out my bad guys, you know? [Laughs.] Anybody who thinks that Iâm just a villainous character⌠Well, hey, how about Free Willy?
Beyond The Law (1993)ââBloodâ
MM: Iâve done two motorcycle pictures: I did Beyond The Law, and I did one produced by Tarantino called Hell Ride, with Dennis Hopper and David Carradine and Vinnie Jones. And I just think Hell Ride was a lot more of what a biker movie should be. But the good part of Beyond The Law was that I had a good time with Charlie Sheen. It was fun making a film with him. We were the leads of the picture, and there were a lot of genuine bikers out there in Phoenix. The movie was kind ofâyou know, some of it is really good, and thereâs a following for it, I know that for sure. But thereâs other parts of it that were just way too homogenized, and the movie was just a little bit too nice where it didnât need to be nice. I look at it now, and Iâm fine with it. Charlie and I had a good time, and I kept that bike. And it holds up, you know? But Iâd say that Hell Ride is more up my alley.
Blood Red (1989)ââEnzioâ
The Last Days Of Frankie The Fly (1996)ââSalâ
Hell Ride (2008)ââThe Gentâ
AVC: You mentioned Hell Ride, but you first worked with Dennis Hopper on Blood Red, didnât you?
MM: Well, I donât think I even had two words of dialogue in Blood Red. [Laughs.] But I made Frankie The Fly with Dennis, and then of course we became really good friends. He wrote the forward to one of my books, and we ran around and took a lot of photographs together. And then we did Hell Ride. The last time I saw him was at his Walk Of Fame thing, when he got his star. He passed away, like, two weeks later. But we were friends for 20 years.
Blue Tiger (1994)ââGun Salesmanâ (uncredited)
The Florentine (1999)ââWhiteyâ
AVC: When we talked to your sister Virginia for this piece, she mentioned that you were briefly in Blue Tiger with her, but you appeared in The Florentine with her, too.
MM: Yeah, I think I sold her a gun in Blue Tiger. I was a pawn-shop guy, and I sold her a pistol. She played my sister in The Florentine. I did that as a favor for Chris Penn, who was a really good friend of mine at the time. One of those favors where they need certain people to get financing, so they put this group of people together. Hal Holbook was in that, whoâs such a wonderful actor. And to play with my real sister as my sister was great. The movie itself⌠wasnât good. But it was fine. I loved Chris. He was one of my closest friends.
Strength And Honour (2007)ââSean Kelleherâ
AVC: Is there a favorite project youâve worked on over the years that didnât get the love you thought it deserved?
MM: Yeah, actually, Iâd say Strength And Honour. I thought that was a great film. Itâs a boxing film, and I sat with audiences around the world at different festivals and saw the reactions people had to the movie. Itâs a good film. But it never got its fair distribution. I think itâs still involved in some sort of lawsuit. It was finished right around the same time as The Wrestler, and I know there were a lot of people who looked at it and were looking at The Wrestler, too. Theyâre both fight films, but that was a big comeback for Mickey [Rourke], and I think Strength And Honour kind of slipped through the cracks. But itâs one of those things. What are you gonna do? I mean, Iâve had a lot more good luck than bad, and Iâve made a lot more good pictures than bad ones, and Iâm pretty happy with what I have. I donât walk around regretting too many things. But if you want to put me on the spot and ask me, then, yeah, Iâd say Strength And Honour shouldâve gotten a lot more attention. It just didnât get a shot.
Being Michael Madsen (2007)âHimself
MM: Well, thatâs probably the worst film Iâve been involved in in my entire life. [Laughs.] I actually despise it. I think itâs just a horrendously misorganizedâI donât even know what itâs supposed to be about! Itâs just such a horrendous mistake. I agreed to do that with those fellas, and their original idea seemed like it might be kind of funny, and then when we actually did the film, it was just an atrocity. Itâs not about being Michael Madsen at all, I can tell you that for sure! I donât know who itâs about being, but it ainât anything to do with me! They should change the title to Being In A Bad Film!
UKM: Ultimate Killing Machine (2006)ââMajor Blevinsâ
AVC: Regarding some of the straight-to-DVD stuff thatâs on your resume, it seems like youâre a guy whoâs like, âIf thereâs work to be had, then Iâll do the work.â
MM: Well, I have five boys, you know? And I live in Malibu. Itâs not like my lifestyle is⌠I mean, itâs not for me so much. Itâs for my family. I like my family to have a good life. If youâre a bricklayer, youâre gonna go lay bricks, and if youâre a film actor, youâre gonna go act in films. I wish I could pick and choose sometimes, but it just isnât like that. Now, unfortunately, things like the IMDB are really irresponsible, and theyâre really not nice, and they really make you look like a buffoon. Itâs, like, you know, you meet somebody on an elevator and they say they have a screenplay that their brother-in-law wrote, and you say, âWow, that sounds interesting,â and the next thing you know, itâs on IMDB that youâre in it or that youâre in post-production. Or you go and you do two days for some young kids to help them out, and they put your name above the title, and they put it on the IMDB, and suddenly it looks like youâve done 75 films in the last 10 minutes. But a lot of them never got finished, some of them never got released, and the rest of them are in limbo somewhere.
I donât get the IMDB. I donât understand what its purpose is. Itâs a lot of misinformation. They put things on there that shouldnât be on there, or you lend your name to something so you can put some groceries in the refrigerator or pay for your gas, and suddenly it turns up on there like itâs some great thing that you wanted to do. Either that, or it makes you look like a complete idiot. Iâve called them several times myself and said, âGuys, lookâŚâ Iâve given them specific titles that should not be on there. But they wonât take them down. They claim itâs a public service. But whatever it is, I personally donât get it. I donât get the point of the existence of it. Itâs very unreliable, and they donât give you a chance to explain why there are certain projects on there that shouldnât be on there.
Ultimate Killing Machine was⌠âTime to pay the mortgage, Mike. Time to pay for your childrenâs education. Time to buy the wife a Range Rover. Time to put some groceries in the fridge.â But listen: Iâve got the Comedy Central thing, and Iâm working on a great cowboy picture, and I would go so far as to say that thereâs not gonna be a lot of strange titles turning up on the IMDB next year!
BloodRayne (2005)ââVladimirâ
MM: Thatâs one of those things where I got to go to Romania and to Transylvania. I went to where the bones of Vlad Dracul are buried under the monastery, you know what I mean? A lot of people donât realize sometimes that you get to go to these places that at no other point in your life would you ever have any reason to be able to see. I thought the character was a heroic character. He was a vampire hunter! So I got to sword-fight and ride around on horses. It was an adventure picture. It was more about the experience than the great desire to play Vladimir. But, you know, they stuck Ben Kingsley in there, and Iâm sure he was handsomely paid for his few days he was there. [Laughs.] I brought my sons over there when I was shooting that film, so my boys and my wife, they all got to experience and see a part of the world that theyâd never have been able to do otherwise.
Thelma & Louise (1991)ââJimmyâ
MM: Again, thereâs a nice little part for anytime that people think that Iâve been put in the corner as the guy with the cigarette and the gun. I can say, âWell, what about Thelma & Louise? I got to play a nice guy, a romantic guy, and a gentleman.â I rarely get asked to do stuff like that, so I was happy. I like that film a lot. Itâs one of those ones that over time has turned into a cinema classic. Itâs something thatâs remembered very fondly. I know that they wanted Ridley to shoot a different ending. The studio was really kind of convinced that when the car goes off the edge of the road, people were gonna stampede out of the theater. [Laughs.] But he wouldnât do it. He wouldnât shoot an alternate endingâbecause he knew that they would use itâand he stuck by the script. And that was where I met Harvey. Thatâs the first time I met Keitel, and thatâs one of the reasons I did Reservoir Dogs: because he was Mr. White.
Reservoir Dogs (1992)ââMr. Blondeâ
MM: The weird thing is, when I read the script, I didnât want to play Mr. Blonde. I wanted to play Mr. Pink, because he had a lot of scenes with Harvey. But Quentin was pretty, pretty stuck on me as Mr. Blonde. In fact, I tried so hard to convince him that he actually let me come in and audition for it, to read for Mr. Pink, even though I was already technically cast in the film as Mr. Blonde. [Laughs.] So it was very gracious of him to let me do that. But I went in and I did it, and I was turned down. I was told, âItâs Mr. Blonde, or youâre not in the movie.â So I said, âOkay.â And little did I know, of course, that that would turn out to be a pretty memorable part.
AVC: When you read the script and saw what was going to be happening between you and the cop, did you wonder how it was going to play, and if it was going to be too intense?
MM: Well, you know, honestly, when I see the film, I kind of donât understand what the big deal is. I really, honestly, truly never saw why people were so affected by it. I kind of thought it was kind of tame. I mean, if I wouldâve lit him on fire, well, good lord, that wouldâve been pretty horrifying. Imagine being shot by Tim [Roth] while the guy is burning and on fire. That wouldâve been pretty horrendous. But I basically get killed before I do anything. No, I didnât have any trouble with it.
I remember in the script it said, âMr. Blonde maniacally dances around the manacled cop, singing âStuck In The Middle With You,ââ but I didnât really know what to do. I didnât know to do it. And in the rehearsals, whenever we got up to that point, I would just look at Quentin and say, âListen, let me do it on the day, because I have no idea what Iâm going to do.â And I honestly didnât! And I still donât know why I did what I did do. [Laughs.] It was rather strange. I asked him to play it for me, and I had a little earbud in my ear, and they played Stealers Wheel to me while I was doing that little dance, which⌠I donât know where I came up with that. Iâm obviously not a dancer. Itâs obviously some bizarre psycho dance that I came up with on the spur of the moment. But it worked! And itâs a great film. You watch it now on the big screen, even after all these years, itâs really disturbing.
AVC: Thereâs been this and that written about how there was talk of a possible Vega Brothers film with you and John Travolta, but how serious did those talks actually get? Was it ever beyond the wishful-thinking stage?
MM: Well, I thought it always was in the works. But like anything, too much time went by. I said to Quentin just in MayâI was in Cannes with John and Quentinâand I said, âAre we ever going to actually do The Vega Brothers?â And Quentin looked at me, âYeah, if someone invents a time machine!â [Laughs.] And, well, yeah, I guess that was the answer, because obviously The Vega Brothers would have to be a prequel to Dogs and Pulp Fiction, and how is that even humanly possible? John and I donât exactly look the same anymore. But, you know, you never know. Itâs one of those things where you really, truly donât know. Because when it comes to Quentin, he could suddenly in one afternoon come up with a theory of how to do it. Maybe weâre the twin brothers of Vincent and Vic who have been in prison or something. I mean, when it comes to the movies, thereâs always a way. I donât know. All I can say is that I honestly donât know. But Iâve become pals with John, and I think itâs something that will have to be rethought, but thereâs only one person in the world who knows, and thatâs Quentin.
Kill Bill: Vol. 1 (2003) / Kill Bill: Vol. 2 (2004)ââBuddâ
The Hateful Eight (2015)ââJoe Gageâ
AVC: Was the character of Budd in Kill Bill written for you? Tarantino seems to have a history of writing his scripts with specific actors in mind for the roles.
MM: Well, thatâs very true. And itâs lucky for a lot of guys that itâs true. Heâs a very noble guy. He gets a certain thought in his head, and he knows who he wants to do it, and thatâs the way heâs going to do it, and nobodyâs gonna talk him out of it. So Iâm happy to be in that bunch.
AVC: Iâm guessing you canât say so much about The Hateful Eight at this point.
MM: Well, you know, the reality is that youâre right, I canât say much about it. Itâs not time to say anything. But I would say that itâs probably the best role that Iâve had in quite awhile, and⌠itâs happening. Iâm about halfway done, and the stuff that weâve shot has been pretty incredible. And Quentinâs at the top of his game. Itâs a very complicated film. Itâs a Western, but itâs not like any western that anybody has ever seen before. Iâve had a lot of great days, letâs put it that way. I went home at night many times feeling pretty good about everything we were getting, and⌠[Laughs.] Itâs pretty wild.
Wyatt Earp (1994)ââVirgil Earpâ
AVC: Given what you said earlier about people dwelling on the âwhat might have beenâ scenarios, what about the experience of doing Wyatt Earp (as opposed to asking about having to turn down Pulp Fiction because of being signed to the film)?
MM: Well, you know, it was a long walk down to the O.K. Corral. Had I know it was going to be that long a walk, I wouldâve grabbed one of the horses or I wouldâve got a taxi or something. You know, it was fun. Thatâs the only reason I did the film: because of the Western history of the Earps walking down the street. But honestly, and Iâm not trying to hurt anybodyâs feelings who were the makers of the movie, but I thought it was long and boring, and it was pointless. And I think that Tombstone was a far better picture, and I think thatâs what happened: It came out first, and everybody was kind of, like, âWell, weâve seen the story of Wyatt Earp,â and by the time the one I was in came along, nobody cared anymore, soâŚ
But, you know, it was great being there, it was great doing it, it was great playing Virgil. It was all good. I would rather have played Doc Holliday. If a time machine existed, I wouldâve liked to have played Doc Holliday. But it was fun. I just like to live in the present. Hey, Iâm in The Hateful Eight. Iâm a happy man!
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