Emmy nominee Carlos-Manuel Vesga on the unusually thrilling challenges of Pluribus

I have to add that for the last reading here in L.A., when I met Vince Gilligan and Rhea Seehorn, I was nervous that day and when we were in studio shooting the scene. I was just pretending that I wasn’t because they were so sweet. Vince, the first thing that he did was say, “We are lucky to have you here today.” All I could think was, “Are you kidding? I’m the luckiest guy in the room right now.” He was so interested in hearing about my life and background, and to make the whole process easier for me. 

AVC: As Manousos treks from Paraguay to New Mexico in episode seven, most of his dialogue involves him learning how to speak English to communicate with Carol. What was it like to narrow down and convincingly express the same phrases over and over again to explain his state of mind? 

CV: I was lucky enough to have Adam Bernstein as my director, and he’s such a playful guy. The secret to acting is being playful, and he would allow that for me.

I’m also a teacher, I’ve taught acting, and there’s an exercise that I love. It’s when you get two volunteers and give them a scenario where one is a cop and the other a potential thief. They have improvise an interrogation scene between them, and the only words that you can use are the lyrics to “Mary Had A Little Lamb.” It’s a beautiful exercise because if it’s done correctly, it doesn’t matter what they’re saying, you get the meaning. If the intonation and inflections are right, you actually get a scene and it develops. Also, at times, I was having a conversation with myself about what Manousos wanted to tell Carol when he got there. That allowed for the same lines to have different interpretations.

AVC: It also looked physically taxing. Was it exhausting to film the parts of the episode when he’s traveling through the Darién Gap? 

CV: Oh, yeah, it was taxing on my body, but definitely it was all acting. It doesn’t even come close to what people go through when they are crossing the Darién Gap. I was very aware that I had to do justice to what these people go through when they actually go through the Gap. It is an ongoing tragedy. It’s happening as we speak. So, in my mind and heart, I knew I had to do justice to these people’s resilience and their hope for a better life. If you translate it into Manousos’ specific situation, he wants to get to the promised land. For him, that is Carol, except she’s having an affair with Zosia, which is a surprise. 

AVC: How does it feel to be recognized with an Emmy nomination for this episode then? 

CV: English is not my first language, but even if I were to answer that question in Spanish, it’d be hard to find the words. I was told by the casting director, who got me the audition for the show, that I am the first Colombian male actor to be nominated for an Emmy in history. So this is surreal. It’s hard to find words except for gratitude. It’s been a lesson to be humble when life and the universe decides to give you a gift such as this one. I am completely aware that they might nominate the actor, but really, what people see when they watch the screen is the work of many, many people. However they perceive Manousos, it has to do with the work of the art department, the props department, the direction, the costume department, the editing, the music. So it’s also a recognition of all of those people’s talents and passion for what they do. My nomination is the sum of that. 

AVC: One of the themes Puribus emphasizes is how much people actually need each other. Do you think that, especially in a post-COVID world, this show resonates with everyone even more deeply?  

CV: The relevance of Pluribus is that it’s obviously entertaining. If you watch it just from that point-of-view, you’ll have a good time. But I do believe that the show goes towards the realm of art rather than entertainment. What art looks to give to the audience or its spectator is a different perspective on existence that will invite them to rethink their own lives and to ask important relevant questions. I think that was accomplished. When I speak to people about Pluribus, it’s lovely to see how personal it was for them because they understood it in a different perspective and that really affected them. I would love to see more shows that produce that in audiences and confront them with important existential questions about what the meaning of life is. What is happiness? Where do we find it? There are so many important things that Pluribus puts on the table. That’s what makes it very special in the spectrum of TV shows that you have today. 

AVC: Did it have you asking such existential questions about yourself or your life too? 

CV: Oh my God, yes. Every day I wake up and I have a different take on the show. The first character I met [while reading it] was Carol, and I thought, ‘Oh, I’m Team Carol, for sure.’ Then I met Diabeté, and I can see why he makes his choices, but I’m not on his team. I get the feeling that he is going to grow tired of his entourage of supermodels. You’re going to enjoy it for two years and then you’re going to be like, ‘Well, what next?’ It’s empty. If you have to tell people what to do to make you happy, it takes the joy out of it. And then I met Manousos, and of course, I’m Team Manousos. 

Something I realized is that if you ask other species about the Joining, they would probably say it’s the best thing that happened to them because humans stopped hunting, killing, torturing, or doing experiments on them. So maybe the Joining is the best thing to happen to the planet, but it’s the end of humanity. If you take all the things that you lose, it’s things like debate, surprise, creativity, humor, and comedy. You lose your childhood and your innocence, even if you gain wisdom. I’ve watched the show many times, and the more I watch it, the more I feel for Carol and her grieving process. It’s about how when the pain is so unbearable, we might end up doing crazy things. You have to go through that process to get on solid ground. I started hating Zosia. I mean, I’m not keen on the Others. If I were to choose, I would want to be Helen because she doesn’t have to deal with it at all. She doesn’t have to save humanity. She’s just gone. 

AVC: How do you think it affects Pluribus that it expands its scope so we’re seeing the impact of the Joining on a global level? It’s different from other American post-apocalyptic stories that take place in a single big city and don’t show us what’s happening in the rest of the world. 

CV: It really is global and I was thrilled they went through the trouble of actually casting the right people for it, like finding Peruvian actors who would speak Quechua, or in my case, the trouble of casting all over Latin America. It speaks a lot about the integrity of the team that they really wanted to get those right. It presented Karolina Wydra with a very hard task, which was that she had to speak Mongolian, French, and Spanish, among other languages. She had to go all over the place. We are reminded in Pluribus about the vastness of the world, like how [the survivors] all travel to Bilbao, Spain, to meet each other. It’s a reminder of how vast the world is and how fragile humans are. 

AVC: Is there anything you can say about season two and where we may find Manounos? Or where you hope to go next with him? 

CV: I don’t know anything. I haven’t been told anything. I know we’re starting by the end of the year, but I have no dates yet. As for Manousos, his biggest virtues are also his biggest flaws. It’s the fact that he’s so black and white, and that he is so stubborn about doing the things that he sets out to do. He needs to learn to be flexible and to be more strategic about what he does. You need to get close to your enemy if you are going to beat them. I know that Carol is going to be a great guide into getting close to your enemy. Not as close as she got with Zosia, though. [Laughs.] Manounos needs to learn to be more sagacious. I also can’t wait to be more aware of the comedy of his situation. In season one, I was involved more in the dramatic and tragic circumstances. I was always playing him very seriously because of the gravity of what he did. I think he should keep doing that, but I’m keeping my eye on his comedic side. His partnership with Carol will likely bring that up, and I’m sure it’ll be very funny and moving at the same time. 

AVC: You can already see it in that finale scene when they’re talking under the umbrella. 

CV: I love that scene because you can see it’s what makes them human, the fact they don’t just agree with each other compared to the Others. It’s a reminder that the thrill of human existence relies on being uncomfortable sometimes. I think that’s where the point of existing lies. 

Saloni Gajjar is The A.V. Club‘s TV critic.