Welcome to Crosstalk, wherein A.V. Club writers discuss their varied (or unvaried, as the case may be) perspectives on a pop-culture topic. This time, Tim Lowery and Saloni Gajjar pick apart the wild, bloody, and sometimes WTF-inducing ride that was The White Lotus season three.
Tim Lowery: So Saloni, over Slack and in meetings, you’ve expressed that this season didn’t really work for you from the get-go. And I want to get into that, as we haven’t really dug into it beyond polite disagreements. (As you know, I really liked a lot of this run.) But I think we need to start this chat at the end, with Sunday night’s 90-minute, objectively wild finale. Unlike recapper Manuel Betancourt, whose insights have been excellent these past two seasons—and whom I was usually onboard with this year—I did not love “Amor Fati.” For me, the payoff of this show has never really been the intricacies of finding out who bit the dust and how they did. And the stress on those machinations felt off. In the first two seasons, those deaths (save for all of of the gay guys on that boat off the coast of Sicily) were accidental and darkly funny: Tanya slipped after basically becoming an action hero out of nowhere, and Armond was stabbed by that douchebag Shane after taking a shit in his luggage. These were tragic deaths, of course, but they were presented with a biting humor that really fit with the show’s vibe and outlook. I understand that this season was very much about fate, but I found the deaths of Rick and Chelsea as tragic lovers to feel so heavy. That was clearly the intent by Mike White here, but it really did feel at odds with what I love about the show. Some red herrings are fun, but there were so many of them this season. There were other things that bugged me—the ominously scored slo-mo scenes in the last two eps became a bit much for me, and I was not into how the “I am your father” revelation unfolded—but what did you think of the finale generally?
Saloni Gajjar: Yeah, as a huge fan of The White Lotus, I’m disappointed by how boring the Thailand-set third round was, and that’s not a word I would normally associate with Mike White. So, in line with the remaining episodes, the finale was also ineffective. Like you, I’m not into the show to find out who dies and how it happens. Theorizing about it feels silly because of the randomness of it all. And yet, I was sure Rick and Chelsea were goners primarily because of how heavy-handed it was. We were beaten over the head with it. I don’t think I could’ve taken it if Chelsea had said something else along the lines of how she’s going to fix her boyfriend or die trying. We get it, girl! I also wasn’t surprised Lochlan survived. Just add it to the list of many fakeouts we got of the Ratcliffes dying (like in Tim’s several visions/dreams).
Besides the shootout/blender nonsense, the so-called deeper elements didn’t work for me either. I was most invested in the trio of longtime friends who have probably outgrown each other and are afraid to admit it. At least that’s what the show kept telling us again and again (and again!). It’s why Laurie’s speech to Jaclyn and Kate rings false to me, as beautifully performed as it was by a magnetic Carrie Coon. It doesn’t feel earned at all. Neither does Belinda’s arc. I’m happy she got the money even if her morals are compromised, but this pivot just feels like it came out of nowhere. I get that TWL wants to say how money corrupts everybody, but it’s hard to feel like she did anything wrong to Pornchai considering that character was not developed. White trying to mirror Belinda’s actions with Tanya’s in season one felt, to me, like going for the flashy route instead of something more meaningful. That sentiment probably applies to the season overall.
TL: I hear you on how some of these threads tied up in that last hour-plus, and there were certainly some illogical beats that didn’t work for me. But I really did love this run up until episode seven, when I finally started to agree with some of the viewer comments that this season felt more stretched out compared to the last two. (Gaitok’s getting-the-gun-back and Tim’s drinking-and-pill-popping subplots were the biggest offenders for me in this regard.) But I take issue with your “so-called deeper elements” description of the themes. I actually don’t have any problems with them or how White tackled them. White presented Big Themes and Issues, sure, but he always does so in a very entertaining and interesting and highly stylized way, in my opinion, which is no small feat.
What’s more, with this season—perhaps more than any of the others—he actually made me empathize with people or dynamics I really hated (particularly Saxon and Tim for the former, and Kate, Laurie, and Jaclyn’s friendship for the latter). That’s an incredible skill, and it would be so much easier to continue to paint Saxon as a dick (it’s very fun to watch him in that mode) than give him some earned color and depth. And I feel like just when you’re into the rhythms of this show and the comedy of it and how the people you’re watching are mostly awful, White hits you with a line or moment that really resonates or makes you think, like Laurie’s one about time in the finale, or the monk’s explanation of death to Tim, or—especially—Frank’s monologue at the bar to Rick. Added to that, this season had moments that made me laugh so hard, like—as fucked-up as it this is to admit—Saxon’s world crashing with the realization about being jerked off (sex and family are both instantaneously ruined for him—and money, the other big thing in his life, is up next!) and just about any Parker Posey line delivery. (I have thought way too much about her buzzed, smiling “We flew over the North Pole” greeting.) That’s a crazy mix, and I’m so glad we have it on TV. You mentioned Carrie Coon’s performance. What other ones did you like? Or which ones didn’t work for you?
Photo: Fabio Lovino/HBO
SG: That’s so interesting because I think White took the highly stylized portion of it too far (those monkeys could’ve gotten far less screen time) at the risk of foregoing well-defined storylines. The comedy and drama both felt broad and uninteresting to me as a result. With his previous Hawaii and Italy installments, there was a tonal tightrope of bleak comedy with detailed character explorations. Season three felt lacking in the things TWL is known for: a sharp satire of class exploitation and an analysis of people’s wants, via carnal urges or other desires. Sorry, but making Parker Posey say fun things in her great Southern accent (a performance I really enjoyed!) doesn’t make up for not giving her much interiority, and neither does making Chelsea a manic pixie dream girl of sorts who loves astrology and will follow her man around wherever he goes despite how he treats her. I just thought it was hard to care about anyone because I barely knew them. Seemingly, neither did White.
If anything, this disjointed season is a great example of the need for a writers’ room on this show (look no further than the dialogue that poor Zion was given in the finale while negotiating with Greg). I also wasn’t a fan of how no one from Thailand got the type of development smartly afforded to Valentina, Mia, and Lucia, for example. Lisa from Blackpink was cast just to be a prop for Tayme Thapthimthong’s Gaitok. I did think both actors were good, though, just underused. Ditto for Natasha Rothwell. I’m not surprised that Carrie Coon, Parker Posey, Walter Goggins, and Aimee Lou Wood were my favorites because I’ve enjoyed their previous work. However, I will say that Patrick Schwarzenegger surprised me. And it was nice to see Michelle Monaghan and Leslie Bibb have a fun time.
TL: Mostly out of ignorance, Schwarzenegger surprised me too. I actually thought this season did a nice job showcasing different actors each week and different types of acting. You might be annoyed that Parker Posey’s character doesn’t have that much interiority, but maybe that character, aside from her denial…just doesn’t have that much interiority. (I was pleasantly surprised Tim did when his world started crashing, and Jason Isaacs really sold it.) Not every character can be brooding like Rick (Goggins, who, as many others have said, is really great here as an empty shell of a man), and I mostly liked the mix of light and dark. (I do get what you’re saying with some of the side characters though.)
That said, I think adding writers to this show kind of goes against the whole spirit of it. I love that it’s a singular vision and that White is allowed to just make what he wants. One of the joys of this project is that White and Meredith Tucker are incredibly good at casting, and these actors are incredibly good at, you know, acting. It’s always exciting to see a new face each year—like, for me, Schwarzenegger and Sarah Catherine Hook—and then watching them kind of break as the season chugs along. I’d also like to shout-out Coon and Wood, who really could have been a silent-film actor with those facial expressions. And, to celebrate another turn on the lighter side, Christian Friedel showed some fantastic comic timing as Fabian. I would have like more of him. As far as where this sits with the other seasons for me, I need to think about it more. I loved watching seasons one and two, and loved taking in this batch until, like I said, its penultimate episode. To be honest, I’m just happy that White can make a season of TV like this every other year—something I can think about week to week, something I can laugh at, something with great performances, and something that throws a few big ideas into the pot while still hooking you. Make another 10, please. Looking ahead, where do you want the show to go? In one of his recaps, Manuel suggested moving the show to a cold-weather destination, like at an après-ski resort. I like that idea a lot. Mike White himself, in the new episode of The White Lotus Official Podcast, suggested that season four could take place in a “film-festival or art-world situation.” What do you think?
SG: I don’t know if that’s entirely true about Victoria Ratliff because I thought there’s maybe some complexity in how well she knows Piper and isn’t as checked out as she seems despite the Lorazepam. Then again, no one seemed to notice that Tim was dry swallowing those pills like candy, so maybe this one’s on me for wanting more than what was given to us at face value. I also see what you mean about a writers’ room going against what makes the show tick, but White himself said in a recent interview that he’s just one guy trying to make it work. (I’m paraphrasing!) Part of the problem is that’s what makes him unfortunately repetitive in season three, or unable to make things make sense on a granular level. Like, why would Rick go back to that resort after confronting Jim in the first place—or be surprised that Jim is there? I don’t even buy Greg wanting to hang out at or near a White Lotus ever again because he has to think about so many other bigger-picture situations. Anyway, season four can still turn things around for me, especially if he brings in someone cool to play a journalist investigating all these mysterious deaths at a major luxury-resort chain. I think somewhere cold would be a nice change of pace, and a film festival is compelling to me just because White could have fun with some Hollywood satirizing. I know there are rumors of an all-star season, and if that’s the case, I’d love to see Molly Shannon and Meghann Fahy return. Since we agree the casting is great on this show, is there an actor you think would crush it in TWL? I vote for Julia Louis-Dreyfus and Colman Domingo. And I can’t wait to see season-four casting announcements start to roll in.
TL: Me too. For dream casting, if I had to pick just one actor, I’d have to go with Steve Coogan. (He and Julia Louis-Dreyfus sniping at each other would really be something. Let’s get that spec script going.)
