Welcome to Random Roles, wherein we talk to actors about the characters who defined their careers. The catch: They don’t know beforehand what roles we’ll ask them to talk about.
The actor: It’s impossible to look away from Zahn McClarnon when he’s on the screen, whether he’s playing Fargo season two’s brooding assassin, an endearingly goofy cop in Reservation Dogs, or a motivated-by-love host in Westworld. The man’s got range. But McClarnon had to work hard to secure these gigs since moving to Los Angeles “on a whim” more than 30 years ago. He auditioned for more projects than he can recall, which led to bit parts in TV procedurals in the ’90s and early aughts and a big movie break in a Richard Dreyfuss-led thriller. McClarnon tells The A.V. Club that his motivation to keep pushing himself was partly to pave the way for fellow Native American actors, considering the lack of opportunities at the start of his career. Now, he’s collaborated with cool directors, is part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, and, crucially, is number one on the call sheet for AMC’s engrossing neo-noir Dark Winds, which wraps up its third season on April 27.
The A.V. Club spoke to McClarnon about getting into the turbulent headspace of his Dark Winds‘ character, being intimidated by Noah Hawley while filming Fargo, and his favorite Reservation Dogs episode.
Dark Winds (2022-)—”Joe Leaphorn”
The A.V. Club: Dark Winds is your first big project that you also produced. What’s it like to juggle both roles?
Zahn McClarnon: Robert Redford has had the rights to these books for 30 years now, I believe. He got involved with Chris Eyre and some of our directors, and they all asked me to come aboard, along with Tina Elmo, another executive producer. George R. R. Martin was involved as well. It’s hard to say no to a prestigious team like that. I was very excited when they offered me the executive-producer role as well so I could be more involved. It was a no-brainer for me. Most of my EP work is usually done in pre-production, though, like being in most of the meetings and putting in my two cents when needed. I have a great relationship with our showrunner, John Wirth, who’s an amazing, collaborative human being. Everybody is collaborative on this team, so they do listen to my suggestions. I’m involved with the casting and the hiring of directors.
They involve me up to a certain point, and then I have to go to work as an actor, and I let everybody else take on the heavy lifting so I can work and be present during shooting. One of the things I like to do as an EP is open doors to Native talent as much as possible, both in front of and behind the camera. It’s very important to me. It’s a very difficult business to get a foot in. I’m proud to be a part of a show that emphasizes giving people that opportunity. It’s been a wonderful learning curve. Listen, having the opportunity to learn from these people who have been doing this for decades in this business has been a very positive thing. And that’s my perspective on it, to soak up as much as I possibly can and hopefully take it to different projects in the future.
AVC: Joe Leaphorn carries a lot of grief and trauma, especially after doing something pretty dark at the end of season two. How do you tap into those emotions after all these years as a working actor?
ZM: As an actor, I have a really difficult time articulating my process of how I get into a character’s darker moments. I think that as humans, we’ve all gone through painful experiences. We’ve gone through loss, tragedy, and joy. I try to lean into and draw from those lived experiences that I’ve had. It’s something I don’t mind doing. I enjoy the work. I find it cathartic at times. So I just try to feel those emotions. I explore those states of mind and am truthful with them. It’s fun to try to blur that line between reality and pretend. I enjoy that process. It takes a lot of focus. I’m very focused throughout the season. Some people might think it comes off as withdrawn and even grumpy at times, but this just takes a tremendous amount of focus to learn that dialogue and to put yourself in those situations. But we have a great cast and crew to make it as real as possible for me as far as sets and design and the writing. I think James Cagney said it best: “Hit your mark, look the other actor in the eye, and tell the truth.”
AVC: Do you then find it hard to get out of a character’s headspace?
ZM: I’ve had a more difficult time in this season of Dark Winds. I found myself in moments of, again, that line being blurred between reality and pretending. It was a pretty neat experience going through that. Like the love Joe Leaphorn has for his wife, Emma. It was pretty fantastic to experience an honest feeling of how Joe feels about his wife and how madly in love he is with her. Deanna Ellison, who plays Emma, and I are good friends. We had a lot of fun on set, but there was a moment of clarity and realization of how much Joe loved Emma. That was a pretty moving moment for me this season.
For his overall arc, we explore the tragedy that befell his family, including the ramifications of their son’s death and what the consequences are of Joe’s vengeful actions. What he did last season affects his mental state and his marriage. He struggles with a lot of guilt. There’s a moral gray area he’s found himself in. He is questioning some of the decisions he has made, and it leaves him in a lot of fear and anxiety. And in those moments, I found myself, more so than with previous characters in my career, overlapping into my real life. But I’ve got a supportive team, from Tina Elmo to my dialect coach Rob Tepper and all the directors who stood by me through it. They made it a safe environment.
AVC: Do you enjoy getting to explore other sides of Joe Leaphorn, like the mentor-mentee aspect with Kiowa Gordon’s Jim Chee?
ZM: Season three is a bit heavier than the rest, but yes, there’s a conscious effort to bring more levity, especially in the relationship between Joe and Jim Chee. First off, Tony Hillerman laid the foundation for these characters so well, and by bringing our own lived-in experiences to the character, I would like more moments of that to show different aspects of Joe’s personality. But what’s new and interesting in season three is also the contentiousness between Joe Leaphorn and F.B.I. agent Sylvia Washington [Jenna Elfman] after she starts to find out what happened to our season-two villain. So she puts Joe on notice. Their relationship adds a different cat-and-mouse throughout the season.
Fargo (2015)—”Hanzee Dent”
ZM: Hanzee turned into something that I had no idea he was going to turn into, to be honest with you. He’s the tracker and enforcer for a Midwest mob family. I was unaware of what Noah Hawley had planned to do with that character. We all got one script at a time. As a cast, we’re opening up these scripts and wondering if we were gonna die or not. So when Hanzee became a focal point, I was just extremely excited. In the audition process, sitting down with Noah, I asked him what he thought and if he had any notes. He just stared at me. Noah’s an intimidating guy because he’s prolific and a borderline genius. I mean, the guy wrote half the music for Fargo and recorded it himself. I’ve read all of his books; he’s a great writer. He looked at me and said, “If it’s not broke, don’t fix it.” So what I brought to the audition is pretty much what I did throughout the series.
I remember the first day on set, he said just one word to me about his take on Hanzee. He said, “Still.” Just that, to be still. So I took that and tried to implement it into [the character]. As a person, that’s also kind of the way I am anyway. I don’t say a lot. I’ve been told that I say a lot with my eyes. When I don’t have much to say, I usually don’t open my mouth. That’s a good policy. So it wasn’t a big stretch for me, but it was exciting when the audience got to see Hanzee. The reaction to him was a big surprise to me. I had no idea that it would have that effect. He was a bit stereotypical at first with the stoicism of the Native. But we learn more about his past and his traumas and what made him tick. Even though he was an assassin, there was some humanity in that character. I think the audience connected with that and rooted for him.
AVC: Fargo season two has a fantastic ensemble. What was it like collaborating with them?
ZM: In every job you do, good or bad, you learn so much. This one was special because I got to work with people like Kirsten Dunst, Jean Smart, Jesse Plemons, and all these wonderful actors. I got close to them, and we’re still in touch. I see Jesse Plemons at a coffee shop a lot. We text once in a while. I got pretty close to Angus Sampson and Jeffrey Donovan, so we still hang out a bit. It was intimidating with this cast at first, especially because season one was also such a hit. I was seeing one script at a time, unsure of the overall arc. Everyone was on pins and needles on the set and wondering what was going to happen. But they’re all such professionals. To be working with that level of talent was major for me. I found it very easy to get comfortable on set because of their personalities.
Reservation Dogs (2021-2023)—”Officer Big”
AVC: You play a police officer in Reservation Dogs and Dark Winds, but I’m curious about which was more challenging to get right, the comedy or the drama?
ZM: I find comedy more challenging because you have to nail the timing. I get more nervous doinga comedic role than a dramatic role. Reservation Dogs was a cultural phenomenon, and it changed a lot of people’s perspectives on what they thought Native people are like. I hope it’s like that with Dark Winds as well. I had a lot of fun playing Big. He’s a goofy guy with a good heart who also carries some guilt around like Joe Leaphorn from his past failures. We got to improv a lot on the set, which meant I got to go places with a character in a way I never had before. [Series co-creator] Sterlin Harjo let us, as actors, play a lot. There was a lot of laughing in real life because we were like family, with a heavily Native cast and crew. There [were] takes ruined because of how much fun we were having. Sterlin has this laugh you can hear a mile away, and whenever you heard it, you knew the take was ruined. [Laughs] Anyway, he wanted to move on and do other things, which makes me respect him more. He just doesn’t want to stick to just doing Native content. He wants to move on and be a writer or a director who can direct anything.
AVC: Is there a particular episode or day of filming that was the most memorable for you?
ZM: The psychedelic episode [season two’s “This Is Where The Plot Thickens”] was a lot of fun because it meant messing with an almost cartoonish, over-the-top line but trying to base it in reality. That was a fun challenge. I’m hoping to work with that episode’s director, Blackhorse Lowe, again. That was a highlight of the show for me.
AVC: Is the set experience more meaningful when you have a mostly Native cast and crew?
ZM: I’ve been doing this for a long time, for about 30 years. It’s great to be a part of this period now and to be part of the representation in the media. We have Native American directors, crew members, and consultants. I think growing up in and around my culture and bringing that to the set makes it a lot easier, especially because the content is Native. Everybody relates to these stories and can bring their lived experiences to them. It makes it a lot more comfortable on the set, working with people who understand the material.
Silent Fall (1994)—”Deputy Bear”
I was scared shitless when I got the role, to be honest with you, and at the chance of getting to work with Richard Dreyfuss and Bruce Beresford, who had won an Academy Award for Driving Miss Daisy. It was the first time I was a part of a big film. I was pretty terrified at that age. I remember one of the first days on set, I’m working with the late, great J.T. Walsh, a phenomenal actor. I can’t make a cup of coffee and say my dialogue at the same time. I think I was in my early twenties, and I just remember it took me about 15 takes to be able to do it because I was so nervous around these people. These were legends I was working with, and I was such a young man that didn’t have the confidence that I do now of being an actor and being on a lot of sets. It was all brand new. So I was pretty, pretty terrified.
AVC: Were you auditioning for these big movies when you started, or what were the opportunities like at the time?
ZM: I fit into a specific type of role, which meant I was playing a lot of the bad gangbanger, the vato/cholo guy on the street, or playing Indian number one or two on the call sheet. A lot of stuff I was auditioning for obviously were ethnic parts. I had no idea about this business. It was a whim to move out to Los Angeles to try acting; I didn’t put a lot of thought into it. I got myself into classes as soon as I got out here. I was just auditioning as much as I possibly could and trying to learn as much as I could in that small amount of time. Luckily, I’m still working in this same business some 30 years later. I’m very fortunate to be doing it. But I knew in the beginning that I might be able to do this thing if I worked hard enough. I was auditioning for commercials, auditioning for whatever I could audition for.
Saving Grace (2007)—”Ames Blackbird” Life (2009)—”Tomas Shasta” Castle (2011)—”Roy Horton”
ZM: These one-off roles perfectly tie into what I was saying about auditioning for whatever I can. The best place to learn is on the set. And I was very lucky in the ’90s to the late 2000s to guest star a lot on television shows and to work on my craft and be in a professional environment while I’m making money doing it. It was a big deal for me.
No Hard Feelings (2023)—”Gabe Sawyer”
ZM: I had worked for one of the producers in a different movie that will be out this August called Americana. She had called and asked me if I was interested in coming out to New York to play a surf lawyer, and I said yes. Working with Jennifer Lawrence is not something you turn down, either. It was an opportunity to do a different type of role. It was cold and rainy when we filmed, and we had to pretend it was a warm day on a beach, so it was a bit of a difficult shoot. I will say I was hoping we would stay away from the ethnicity of the character. But on the day of the shoot, we changed up some of the dialogue to add in that he was Native American. Which, you know, that’s fine. But I’m always striving to find roles that are more ambiguous and do not only feature my Native side. Hopefully, more of those roles will come along.
Doctor Sleep (2019)—”Crow Daddy”
This was a role I didn’t have to audition for or anything because Mike Flanagan saw me in Fargo, and that show led to people coming after me for parts. I read the Stephen King book, and it jumped at me, again, that this character didn’t have to be Native American. That was very exciting to me. So I asked Mike if we could keep the character more ambiguous, and I was able to grow out my little mustache and beard. Mike is an extremely talented director, so to work with him on a King adaptation was a dream come true. I read a lot of Stephen King books when I was younger.
AVC: You mentioned the mustache and beard, which is interesting because Crow Daddy is one of those characters whose outfits and overall look make an immediate impression. Did you have a say in how he would look? How do the costumes help you get into character?
ZM: I did have a lot of input on that. Our costume designer was very open to what I was looking for. I kept coming back to a bohemian biker-esque look. It brings a lot to the way you perform your characters and how you dress, especially when you’re allowed to bring some of your own ideas to the character. Makes the process more comfortable. I always try to bring something personal to my characters, whether it’s a ring or a bracelet or something that you can’t see [onscreen]. It’s my little homage to the character. In something like Westworld, Akacheta was another good example of how I can just forget I’m wearing makeup and how a wardrobe helps make a character.
